Can we have a Ukraine/ Russia/ Crimea thread for dummies?

[chicaguapa]

In other words, could someone explain the situation in really simple terms please. I don't understand it but feel it's important and I should know what's going on.

And because DD(12) asked me this morning and I couldn't answer.

pro-Moscow activists

masked and armed pro-Russians

Ukrainian officer killed by armed gang

"pro-Russian forces" with armoured vehicles! But no insignia

according to President Vladimir Putin, they are in fact members of "self-defence groups" organised by the locals who bought all their uniforms and hardware in a shop

"armed men" seize hospital

Pro-Ukraine activists beaten up in Crimea

He denies being a paramilitary

Journalists attacked in Crimea

as I said before:

indeed so, math. Where do you think those large gangs of armed thugs in Crimea came from? The ones with no badges who surrounded and pillaged the Ukrainian establishments?

'Where do you think those large gangs of armed thugs in Crimea came from?

They came from Crimea. They were Crimean self defence forces to protect the public from the fascists.

hahahahaha!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26532154

"The internet has no shortage of photographs and videos showing armed men in Crimea who look like members of the Russian military. Their guns are the same as those used by the Russian army, their lorries have Russian number plates and they speak in Russian accents.

Yet according to President Vladimir Putin, they are in fact members of "self-defence groups" organised by the locals who bought all their uniforms and hardware in a shop.

This poses a challenge to the media covering the crisis: what do you call people who are officially not there?

The state-run and pro-government media in Russia have chosen to take little notice of them, and the heavily armed men are rarely if ever shown on TV. Instead, they show groups of lightly-armed "volunteers" described as local "self-defence groups".

"Polite men"

Russian journalists less aligned with the Kremlin often use the phrase "polite men". According to centrist daily Nezavisimaya Gazeta, "'polite, armed men' are in charge of Crimea now". Describing them as Russian troops in the Russian media "is not the done thing, and even dangerous, too," prominent photojournalist Denis Sinyakov comments on independent website Colta.

"According to popular blogger Ilya Varlamov, the term "polite men" was invented by spin doctors who arrived in Crimea from Moscow. "They are creating an image of a Russian liberator-soldier wearing a nice new uniform and armed with beautiful weapons, who has come to defend peaceful towns and villages," Mr Varlamov says.

"Little green men"

Another phrase used by reporters in Russia and Ukraine alike is "little green men", which refers both to the colour of their uniforms and their unconfirmed origin.
Their involvement in Crimea is a "tragicomic masquerade", says Russian liberal newspaper Novaya Gazeta, which argues that "the little green men will turn into Russian troops very soon".

According to Kiev-based private TV channel One Plus One, the term "little green men" was coined by local residents in Crimea. It is now frequently mentioned on Ukrainian TV, by a defence ministry spokesman in his posts on Facebook and even by Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk in his recent addresses to parliament.

Some Ukrainian journalists have criticised the use of this term. "Colleagues, stop using the affectionate term 'little green men' to describe the Russian troops," tweeted journalist Svyatoslav Tseholko. "Otherwise you get the impression that we trust Putin more than we do common sense."

'Russian invaders'

Most journalists in Ukraine, however, have little doubt about the true identity of the pro-Russian armed men.

According to claig, they are in fact members of "self-defence groups" organised by the locals who bought all their uniforms and hardware in a shop.

Can you direct me to the shop in Crimea which sells S300 surface-to-air missiles, tanks, and machine guns, Claig?

'Can you direct me to the shop in Crimea which sells S300 surface-to-air missiles, tanks, and machine guns, Claig?'

The Russian navy were based in Crimea. they had an arrangement to have 25,000 trrops in Crimea. There were tanks and aeroplanes at military bases, including at the Ukrainian ones in Crimea.

Once Crimea voted to join Russia in a referendum, those bases became Russian.

let me check what you mean.

When you said "They were Crimean self defence forces to protect the public from the fascists" have you changed your mind, or did you mean that they were Russian troops who broke the terms of the agreement under which they were stationed in their bases?

And, now that you have had the chance to look at the links I posted, do you mean that it was Russian troops who broke down gates, looted Ukrainian bases, and killed that officer?

So the removal of furniture used as barricades, and taking insignia off a wall counts as pillage?

As for thugs:
The figure on the placard is Stepan Bandera.

'Some of those marching on Wednesday did so in the uniform of a Ukrainian division of the German army in World War Two, AP reports.'

Note Wolfsangel symbol again, and businesslike chain on thug in forefront. These are Patriots of Ukraine paramilitaries photographed during the Euromaidan.

White power symbol.

The red and black flag in this crowd is the Right Sector flag.

Confederate flag and white power symbol in Kiev City Hall.

Is this pillage? Note white power symbol in the background.

No, the "little green men" were Crimean self defence forces.

But, after Crimea had joined Russia, the lorries and tanks were from the Russian military bases in Crimea - the ones that housed the 25,000 Russian troops.

'it was Russian troops who broke down gates'
I don't know, I'm not a BBC journalist. But I would imagine they were Russian troops at that point since the bases were on Russia territory at that point. In order minimise casualties, I suspect the best trained and disciplined troops were sent in at that point.

i don't know about looting Ukrainian bases, I saw the Ukrainian r=troops leave with their possessions. The Russians say that the officer was killed by a sniper, possibly from Kiev, and that a Crimean self defence forces person was also killed in that incident.

German business leaders weigh in.

'Eckhard Cordes, head of Germany's Committee on Eastern European Economic Relations, warned that some trade with Russia could shift to China if Europe turned its back on Russian gas.

"Russia would find new sales markets in China if Europe limited its energy imports," he told Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung, adding such a development could not be in Europe's interest.

Logistics group Deutsche Post DHL's Chief Executive Frank Appel told Die Welt he believed there were few viable alternatives to Europe's dependence on Russian gas, echoing comments Germany's Economy Minister Sigmar Gabriel made on Friday.

"Since we don't have major sources of raw materials in Europe, we will always be dependent on others," Appel said.

"And it seems questionable to me whether dependence on the Middle East or Venezuela would be better than that on Russia."'

Is obsessive Russo-phobia a mental illness?

abc news report Harvard University psychiatrist Alvin Poussaint sees racism that way: "

"Extreme racism is treatable, and sometimes even lesser forms of racism are treatable because they have psychodynamics to them," he told Nightline. "They don't exist as a social problem, they … exist as psychological problems inside the individual. "

just one example

claig guesses that "
'it was Russian troops who broke down gates'
I don't know, I'm not a BBC journalist. But I would imagine they were Russian troops at that point since the bases were on Russia territory at that point. In order minimise casualties, I suspect the best trained and disciplined troops were sent in at that point.

Be so kind as to view the video

and this one

Since your posts bear no relation to reality I can only assume that you have refused to soil your mind by looking.

Putin talks with Merkel about stability and throws in a gesture regarding troops. Restoring and ensuring 'stability' may mean federslising Ukraine. Merkel does not want to be the Chancellor who presided over the resurrection of the right in Germany. Along with the business leaders' statement, I think all of this means Germany has decided to back away from the US and go for self preservation.

Ok I am watching the first video. the Crimean self defence forces broke down the fence and moved in and "trashed" the offices. Simpson then says "it took the arrival of a senior Russian commander to calm things down".

The sef defence forces are ordinary people and not militarily trained and undisciplined. That is why the bases at the end were taken over by professional troops.

In the second video a combination of troops and self defence forces "barged" their way in. They took down Ukrainian shield symbols but computers and desks are left in immaculate condition and a self defence forces person, aged about 60, says that not a single hair has been touched and not a drop of blood has been spilt.