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MUMSNET GONNA BE IN NEW S ON ITV SOMETIME IN NEXT HOUR

78 replies

Radley · 08/08/2006 12:32

SAYS IT ALL REALLY

OP posts:
EmilyTurner · 09/08/2006 09:16

Hello

New here as I've been following the recent furore.

Just a quick note, as I know a few of you looked at what I wrote on my site yesterday, to say that I've updated. I got a top IT lawyer to comment on the case. Her points were interesting, if very sad for the internet community.

I wish you all well and I will follow with interest. Although in the UK, I post on a lot of US forums and I've been posting the updates over there too.

Emily

doingitallagain.blogspot.com

nuckingfutjob · 09/08/2006 09:22

Brilliant blog - baby on lap so can't type much but whoa. This thing has legs...

Carmenere · 09/08/2006 09:30

Excellent blog!!

ZippiZapata · 09/08/2006 09:48

very good read that...one thing does occur to me, the now infamous rocket comment was actually probably only previously seen by a ver small number of people and would no doubt have remained that way. I post and read here all the time and I never saw it.

mummyhill · 09/08/2006 09:59

Welcome Emily - Excellent blog.

CodGuevara · 09/08/2006 10:00

cept for the misuse of the word "effected" isnt it it affected?

theflumpsmum · 09/08/2006 10:11

Well done to Emily for an great blog.From the legal standpoint surely the legal team wouldnt be able to prove that many people had seen the libelous posts.Ive been a lurker here for ages and a poster for a few weeks but have never actually gone onto these sort of threads.Personally I only ever read or post on threads that I have an interest in.Im sure many posters or lurkers are the same so how can the legal team say many thousands have seen the actual threads that are being disputed.Surely with all the media attention this is getting,legal and pr teams especially will be advising not to pursue it further.

ZippiZapata · 09/08/2006 10:14

I don't think they do have to prove it..in fact I think the law is in favour of the litigating party..the onus is on the defendant to make a defense rather than the other side to prove their case (I think)

and in fact from the (yahoo?) case where the woman had to pay damages it was a closed forum with few potential readers but the case was "proved"

DominiConnor · 09/08/2006 10:40

I won't get involved in discussing the "non-person", but would like to bring in my own experiences.
I've been attacked on Mumsnet, and from my basic journo education in the legalities, I could throw my toys out of my pram. I also know a couple of technical things about web conferencing that might make life mildly awkward and expensive for MNHQ, but here's why I don't (aside from the fact that I'm a grown up and can take it on the chin).

I was involved in one of the first snafu's of this kind in the early 1990's. I was a contract programmer, and we said various unkind (but true) things about a recruitment firm. One of their senior droids threatened us with legal action.

What he didn't realise was that a good % of IT journalists are also freelance IT types. He'd thus threatened about a quarter of the IT journos in Britain at one go.
The coverage in the media was really bad for the firm concerned, given this was their core business. Even now, in this group, the term for aggressively stupid behaviour in that group is known as "doing a Span".
Anyone who has had a full business education has typically been taught the lessons from Perrier, Tylenol etc where a big brand has found itself under attack. A core of this is that once journos start diggging, they will find all sorts of crap.
For instance Perrier allowed really really tiny amounts of Benzene a carcinogen into their water. They did the stupid thing of denying it, then claiming it did no harm, then shafting it's disributors with unsellable water, etc.
Journos thought it was Christmas. Their thrashings around led to literally dozens of distinct story lines about the firm. It turned out, for instance, that the "naturally sparkling" they used to put on their bottles was a lie. Normally not a big story, except when blood is in the water.
You can see the parallels with Cadbury's here ?

Fact is the level of toxins was really really small, but by threats, dishonesty, arrogance, and
belligerence, they lost a lot of brand image.
Brand is a big thing when you're selling water or books, or chocolate or pretty much anything else which doesn't compete solely on price.

No business, no matter how dull and law abiding doesn't have stuff it would rather keep mum about.

Finding good stories is hard, I know, since I'm still a freelance journo, and getting to grips with a new area is hard, so when you get a story, you get more words per amount of effort by having a quick dig around things you've already done.

Nowadays my main business is based upon a website with Mumsnet style chat. We are pimps for people in banks, and also do training and write books and learned papers.
I'll try not to sound too pompous about this, but having a forum where people can slag us off means we can say with credibility that we're much more honest and competent than the competition.

Our screwups are posted on the site for all to see. We don't delete them, even when we know them to be false, or simply abusive. It is not unknown for some unhappy people to suggest us having sex with animals, or that we are incompetents, racists, or as in one bizarre topic that I was somehow in league with a French Moslem conspiracy to subvert a major global financial institution.

(All I had said was that these people were smart, and thus got some good jobs).

We get attacked all the time.
The only stuff that gets deleted is when physical violence is threatened.

It makes us stronger. We have easily the best brand image of anyone in our game, even though we're new and still relatively small.

I also write for www.theregister.co.uk
The editor and his gang actually pick up the most interesting abuse we get, and publish it about once a week. There is a competition for the most abusive email we get.
It is a matter of some vague embarassment to me that no one really attacks my stuff much. It's nice to know that one quote of mine is on many office walls, but my home topic (C++ s/w development) is not exactly controversial.

But The Register is a huge success, depending on whose numbers you believe, it's pretty much the top techie website in Europe. The inclusion of the most vitriolic attacks on us, published by us makes us stronger.

tahir · 09/08/2006 10:58

Hi Dominic, glad you've taken an interest, I contacted Mark yesterday about this. It'd be nice to get The Reg's view on this.

DominiConnor · 09/08/2006 12:26

Sadly my beat is not the fun stuff so I suspect Mark will do a better job of it than me.
One thing I could share is that it's a lot easier to get a journo's ear than many believe. Provided you have something resembling a story, and that you don't come across as hysterical, dishonest or a PR flack.

That doesn't mean they'll print what you want, and sadly they may see you as a better story than what you are pointing them at, but they/we are relatively easy to get hold of. Of course big name columnists often don't even work at the office of the publisher, and get more stuff chucked at them than they want.
But if you get one of the 99% who don't have especially glorious job titles, they'll probably listen, and you can often get them to maybe take an interest if you bother to find one that works in that area.
Also, recall that there are a lot of journos, editors, etc. The fact that Mumsnet has now been covered in every plausible UK news outlet in a few days shows that any large random group will have some.

Also I rather suspect that the number of people reading MN will have jumped in the last 7 days.

Perhaps there is a sterling silver lining to the cloud ?

EmilyTurner · 09/08/2006 12:27

The Register is already running the story/ www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08/09/gina_ford/

tahir · 09/08/2006 13:17

Excellent, good point about Amazon reviews too. Plenty of coverage now, and in all sorts of media.

nuckingfutjob · 09/08/2006 13:31

Thing is, if I was going to take something to court, I'd want to be very sure I'd not posted in an appallingly vile fashion myself on said website some time ago...

And then to only be taking that site to court over all the others that have published comments (far worse) - isn't there a word that rhymes with "bendetta"?

tahir · 09/08/2006 13:54

That is the word that springs to mind. Unfortunately it's very easy for someone with enough dosh to do something really nasty.

I don't know how many fora there are in the UK but put them all together and there's 100,000s of members, a quid each?

ZippiZapata · 09/08/2006 13:56

it's a tried and tested strategy isn't it scapegoating

myfreeforum · 09/08/2006 14:59

On raw statsistics we have quarter of a million members worldwide on myfreeforum.org alone and we are in all honesty a small player! Given how easy you can make it to make donations via paypal and given how dearly people should hold their right to freedom of speech, then I'd be sorely dissappointed if a lot of money was not donated.
Especially if mumsnet agreed ultimately to donate the money back into protection of freedom of speech when the case was won. Maybe some trust fund could be set up or something.

theladyvanishes · 09/08/2006 15:08

on bbc site, you can have your say (don't think i should do the think coz theres a photo and names etc)

Rhubarb · 09/08/2006 15:14

I would like to reiterate that although my internet access is sporadic, I want to add all my support and help, if there is anything at all I can do..........

jessicaandrebeccasmummy · 09/08/2006 15:15

MN DEMO LONDON TOMORROW

PLEASE BE THERE ALL THAT CAN

Reasons why.... email me at [email protected]

theladyvanishes · 09/08/2006 15:21

wish I could but i'm up north with be with yous in spirit tho

WatTylermoonfiend · 09/08/2006 15:24

Oh! pleased TheRegister has run it, it was one I contacted

WatTylermoonfiend · 09/08/2006 15:26

wish I could be on the demo too, but too far away

theladyvanishes · 09/08/2006 15:48

as there are so many of us across the country i think it would be great if we all demo'd on the same day everywhere and not just london, could this realistically be organised?

DominiConnor · 09/08/2006 18:22

The timescales are too short for good media coverage, but I like the idea of a nationwide protests.

Seems to me that we all live within reach of a bookshop, perhaps a chain like WH Smith. Presumably there is an author stocked by the chain who has offended us.
I assume we have someone with more artistic skills than me (like most people), and a poster could be generated that we could all print out at home.

Then at the appointed time all turn up at local WHSmiths and very gently complain outside. Preferably with a child or two in tow.

If we could somehow ensure a good turn out might make a good silly season story. Local media and nationals could be invited, the locals like being in on big stories, and if every WHS got a few protestors the nationals might like the story as well.

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