So the verdict is apparently due in the Meredith Kercher murder trial today

[PortofinoRevisited]

BBC Link

The appeal after the overturned convictions. I hope this can all be brought to a close now.

Read The Monster of Florence to find out more about Mignini

I think a number of the police involved in the Amanda Knox interrogation are now under investigation for corruption

www.cbsnews.com/news/amanda-knox-update-could-an-abuse-of-power-investigation-into-several-italian-detectives-impact-the-latest-knox-trial/

Birdsighland, I don't think the recent court were given much choice but to convict - the Supreme Court had pretty much directed that they should consider Guede's verdict of their involvement and convict. It's difficult to know how much they knew about the case as they have to review thousands of cases a year and it was claimed that they had half a room full of documents.

I don't think anything would have come out if RS had been cross examined - if guilty he would have blamed it all on Guede when first arrested. He seems to be an awful public speaker though

For those that believe they are guilty, why do you think they are risking going to prison by protecting Guede?

Blaming Guede would have been such a get out of jail free card. They could have explained that he had threatened them, which made them too scared to come forward - it's definitely what their lawyers would have advised. If iinvolved they must have been terrified of all the evidence the police would find in Meredith's room (how lucky for them that there was none) and would definitely have turned on Guede to save themselves

Yes , but the Hermann trial had to be done as they discounted evidence to easily or without proper questioning. It was a mistrial really. And the statement was made in one session of questioning after RS had dropped being her alibi. In which she had an translator. She had decided to go to the police station to accompany RS and was even doing some homework and stretching. These were not used as evidence in the murder trial in any event.

The handwritten testimony in English which was written independently by her was at her own volition, not during an interrogation.

It was the Hermann trial which said

'the verdict of guilty at the original trial "was not corroborated by any objective element of evidence."'

&

'the statements she made incriminating herself during interrogation were evidence of her confusion while under "great psychological pressure"'

The handwritten note was written a few hours after her interrogation, whilst in solitary and whilst still being denied a lawyer. My reading of it is that she had been browbeaten to the point of confusion and was terrified at making the police angry again - and was trying to explain that she couldn't be sure of anything that she said, but was terrified at making them angry again. I think at that point she almost believed the police were right and that she had been there, but just couln't remember properly - she had been broken.

I can't imagine how terrifying it would be to be interrogated in the early hours of the morning by a team of police, all shouting at you and calling you a liar and hitting you on the back of the head if you couldn't remember something properly. She was told that she would go to prison for 30-years and would never see her family again if she didn't remember. I don't know whether I would have been any stronger in the same situation.

She was given access to a translator, who failed to act independently and instead tried to convince Amanda that she was so traumatised by what happened that she had amnesia.

RS didn't drop her alibi - he was confused about the evening they were talking about and the police wouldn't allow him to look at a calendar.

We'll never be able to prove what happened though, due to the disappearance of the tapes. However, the statements were considered illegal - and an application to the ECHR has already been made regarding using these statements in the civil trial.

Have either RS or AK ever done a lie detector test?

Flora - that's very much AK's version of events. I don't think anybody believes that the police hit her.

Oh gosh no. They couldn't have blame RG in that supposing scenario. Maybe that would have brought it too near to the real story. They had a quite a few days to cook their story together before that fateful night when RS dropped his alibi for AK. Maybe in that scenario RS thought he could just be free of it all and not be involved in any way. Maybe she had a shaky moment when informed RS had dumped her in it and maybe she gave Lamumbas name and thought it would be that easy. When she had time to reflect afterwards maybe she went hmm. What, if they're messing with me and good old RS has not said that? I know, I'll hedge my bets and make a really confusing statement. Maybe.

Just supposing an alternative. I wouldn't say they would definitely do anything as this is speculation.

When the Hermann trial asked if the dna of RS on the bra strap could be contaminated, the expert guy said 'anythings possible'. This did not prove contamination on the bra strap. Is that one of the reasons people are saying it was contaminated? Seemingly, it would have been very difficult to get isolated RS dna on brastrap if contaminated. Seemingly, in all dna evidence, 'anything is possible'. A lot of things were disputed, that doesn't mean they are anything other that a very contested case by the defendents. And public relations machines carefully create spin.

The handwritten statment was not made during an interrogation. Somebody said the previous ones which were inadmissable were written 'after lengthy interrogations'. I don't this was the case. She had been questioned as a witness during the previous few days. But so had others. I don't think they started fingering people.

I think lots of people believe that the police hit her. Patrick Lumumba initially reported that he was beaten and racially abused by the same police. It was reported in court that Amanda Knox was heard screaming and she reported the hitting the very next day.

And if the police version is true, where are the recordings of the interrogation? It would be very easy for the police to prove that she was lying if they would just show us the tapes. They recorded everything else, wire-tapped their phones and bugged the waiting room they were in - but somehow these tapes are not available.

There's only Amanda's word that she was hit. And as we're talking about an occasion where she did nothing but lie then I think it's far more likely she was lying about this too.

There are plenty of police present at the station who have testified that she was treated well, given plenty of food and water and regular breaks.
There was a translator present and she did not ever request a lawyer.

There was also the DNA of three other unknown men on the bra-strap, which seems to suggest contamination to me.

It's so anti-science though, how are you supposed to prove contamination? There are scientific standards because contamination is incredibly common and happens incredibly easily - it is up to the prosecution to ensure they have done a decent job. The Independent experts claimed that they could not conclude that Raffaele's DNA was on the bra strap

This is what they said
Relative to Item 165B (bra clasps), we find that the technical analysis is not reliable for the following reasons:

1. There does not exist evidence which scientifically confirms the presence of supposed flaking cells on the item;

1. There was an erroneous interpretation of the electrophoretic profile of the autosomic STRs;

1. There was an erroneous interpretation of the electrophoretic profile relative to the Y chromosome;

1. The international protocols for inspection, collection, and sampling of the item were not followed;

1. It cannot be ruled out that the results obtained derive from environmental contamination and/or contamination in some phase of the collection and/or handling of the item.

Raffaele had also spent time at the cottage over the previous days - and it isn't really surprising that his DNA was found anywhere and Amanda and Raffaele had eaten lunch with Meredith earlier that day. All he needed to do was give Meredith an Italian kiss greeting to transfer his DNA to her clothing - or to pass her something

Nancy66 - show us the tapes of what happened and I'll happily believe you.

A number of the police that testified are now being investigaed for corruption, which doesn't really make me believe in their integrity.

I can see that the police are going to stick to a version of events. But, equally, a manipulative liar like Knox is going to invent stories as well.

There are no recordings of the interviews which is totally ridiculous and incompetent. I agree. It seems it wasn't routine though.

I don't think that makes any sense Birdsighland - it's obvious that the one thing they hadn't done is try to get any story straight beforehand. The only reason I can think that she didn't blame Guede, is that she didn't know who the killer was? Why would they protect Guede and why are they still protecting him? If guilty, their best defence would have been to blame Guede and say that they were too terrified to come forward - how would they have known that they were going to be lucky enough not to leave a trace of themselves in the murder room? Unless you really do believe in the magic DNA hoover?

Nancy66 - it was routine, they recorded everything else.

The only reason people think Amanda Knox is a manipulative liar, is because of the confused statements she gave that night - or because the way she has been vilified during the media witch hunt - she's pretty much been damned for everything she has ever said or done. What other evidence is there that Amanda Knox was a manipulative liar? She had no history of violence and good character references from her university teachers, friends and family back home. It sounds like she was possibly considered the loud and annoying American, whilst in Italy - but there isn't any other evidence of her being anything but a fairly normal young person.

If you believe she is guilty, what is your theory of the crime?

There are plenty of police present at the station who have testified that she was treated well, given plenty of food and water and regular breaks.
There was a translator present and she did not ever request a lawyer

You don't think the Italian police would be likely to have cooked up matching stories?

& she was told by the police that if she insisted on a lawyer that would put her in a much worse position

According to the police it wasn't routine - due to budget cuts. Who knows? I agree it was a huge mistake.

AK lied from the start. From the very first contact with police.

I don't have a theory on the crime I just cannot accept her innocence. I don't understand why an innocent person would behave the way she did, frame another mane, claim to have been at the murder then denied it, lied about the police interrogation and endless other things that just don't make sense and all add up to being more than coincidence

Theonewiththenicestsmile - yes, I acknowledged that the police are going to stick to a story. However what we DO know for an absolute certainty is that Knox DID lie. We don't know the police did.

Nancy66 - this is what the Chief of Police said the day after Amanda was arrested

"Initially the American gave a version of events we knew was not correct. She buckled and made an admission of facts that we already knew to be true. They all participated but had different roles.",

This seems to suggest that Amanda eventually just told the police what they wanted to hear - and what they were suggesting to her.

And a number of the police involved have subsequently been proven to be liars - hence why they are up on corruption charges.

According to the police it wasn't routine - due to budget cuts - it actually was routine, and budget cuts was only one of the many stories that were told regarding why it wasn't done. It was also reported that they had lost the tapes and that someone forgot to press play.

All other witnesses were taped and phones were tapped, which seems to suggest they were not concerned about the money.

Nancy66, you should really read up on false confessions - they are very common and usually occur in similar situations to this. You seem to be judging Amanda on what was said in an illegal interrogation, which doesn't seem fair to me.

And what lies are you talking about that Amanda told right from the start, I can't think of anything that could be considered a lie apart from what was said in the illegal interrogation?

doesn't suggest that to me at all!

the interrogation was not illegal!

AK lied from the start. From the very first contact with police

Did she? What makes you say that?

It was illegal and was not allowed to be used in the criminal trial.