Flying on holiday is a sin....................does it make you feel guilty

[zippitippitoes]

so says the Bishop of london as the church of England brings forward a plan to encourage everyone to step lighter on the planet

are you justified in flying abroad on holiday?

DominiConnor - that's exactly what I'm saying - those models couldn't have predicted the major events either. We're still struggling to understand and explain WHY some of the geological events happened in the first place, let alone predict what's going to happen in 50, 100, 1000 years time.

It wasn't that long ago that scientists were predicting the return of the ice... certainly when I was a kid, we were all worried about the ice age returning. Hell, it wasn't that long ago when the ice on the Thames was so thick you could walk across it. And once a very long time ago, Antartica had forests...

Considering the current housing shortage that is quite worrying Zippi.

Good point, and it applies to pretty much anything we do to improve our situation, and all forms of power generation, with current solar cells being ridiculously wasteful. Since steel, cement and other building materials are almost entirely made using carbon fuels the short term effect will be yet more carbon. Also the refining of Uranium uses quite a bit, and given where it is mined is unlikely to use nuclear energy.
We also have the story fed to us by Iran which actually makes a sort of sense, nearly, kind of.
They want to use nuclear power to extract oil products from low grade sources. Currently many types of carbon energy lose 15-25% in their conversion to usable fuels.
The chemistry of this is non trivial but if you assume for now that they are actuallyt being truthful, then the net effect of the technologies they are developing is to increase the supply and thus lower the cost of carbon fuels, so nuclear power may in that context seriously increase CO2 output. Given that there are huge amounts of shale, low grade tars, etc it's possible that "nuclear oil" may actually double our effective reserves, which is both good and bad.

Also I seem to recall that the neutron bomb actually came out of a project to use nuclear explosives as more powerful versions of the dynamite used in mining.
Given that some extraction methods could require serious heat under the ground, we may be in for some interesting times.

as an aside..600,000 people are expected to come to the uk when the next two countries join the eu (Romania and Bulgaria)unless work restrictions are placed on them

Yes and many of them - just like the large numbers of polish people will go back to Poland when they've earned some £'s to take back............ DH comes across many, many polish people in his job - and he reckons that 75% of them are single men, most of them looking forward to booking their return flights home (or already possessing tickets to fly back!).

not at all

not at all what beef?

We fly all the time. Fly at least once a month to see my family. I don't feel guilty. I think a lot of businesses can cut down on their travels and use tele conf etc before you make it a sin to your average family to spend a week in Spain once a year. I think he should have attacked the big fish!

flying away on holiday - except I HATE flying!

fairymum are you family in a different country?

flying's such a PITA, especially in the US, where you're treated like a criminal.

Well, not my DH and children, but I am Swedish so have parents and siblings in Sweden. I am sure it is a sin not to visit your elderly parents too.

I have to confess my brother will be making 2 (cheap) flights in the space of a week in August - but I think he has an acceptable reason.

He's flying down to Bristol (from Edinburgh) to pick up our 93yr Grandfather, to fly him back to Edinburgh to watch the Tattoo - Grandad has been stuck in care homes for 6 1/2yrs now - and hasn't spent the night away anywhere............is that acceptable or shall I shoot my brother now??

it's not - but once a month! That's a lot - my parents are in the UK - and we're lucky if we see them 2/3 times a year - event hen it's only short visits - they'll pop in for a few hours on Friday - but that'll be the first time since before christmas!

Think that is excessive TBH, Fairymum.

Really? I don't. See I think it's ridiculous when you look at the big "sinners" when it comes to pollution and all the buiness air travel which goes on to pick on the "little" consumers. I also use a hosepipe in my garden until Thames water deal with their leaks.

or should I tell my parents that they cannot see their grand children as much anymore because of global warming?

but are you a little consumer if you're flying once a months - that's 12 times a year!

I have a friend who's DH often has to travel with his work - usually into Europe - and he only goes 4/5 times a year.........

but do you have to see them once a month??

I don't know of many people (unless they live very local to their parents) who visit them every single month. Surely you can't go for very long on each trip either?

Wouldn't it be better to go fewers times a year - and spend longer there each time??

I am quite proud of the fact that DH (41) and I (39) have never stepped on a plane in our lives. Don't even have passports.

Eh yes...I do need to go home once a month. And I do think it's so much easier to attack the personal consumers than going for the big fish who is really contributing to GB. Deal with them first and not with people who are visiting family or going on a much needed holiday.

but don't you feel Any need to make some sort of personal contribution? It's your children as well that could be affected in the future!

Please don't stop flying. Dh will be out of a job, and then we'll have no money and I won't be able to afford to buy free range eggs and fair trade products.

Fairymum, think you are being wilfully blind to the very real issue of global warming which is happening now. We all contribute towards it, you more than anyone else I know. Of course business should be penalised but if we all had your attitude nothing would happen. This apathetic 'I make no difference' attitude is a disgrace.

So where do we stand on Air Ambulances and Donor Flights?