Flying on holiday is a sin....................does it make you feel guilty

[zippitippitoes]

so says the Bishop of london as the church of England brings forward a plan to encourage everyone to step lighter on the planet

are you justified in flying abroad on holiday?

scary, isn't it? hope lots see this thread and start thinking about it, if they aren't already.
slightly more important than BB or Jordan's m/c..

I think perhaps the current heat wave might have the effect of generating some interest

I am for making flights a lot more expensive or having a tariff relating to the purpose and number of flights tax wise..but I doubt that would be a vote winner!

Nothing like playing the fiddle whilst Rome burns for most, I guess . . .

It cost me £9.00 to carbon neutralise our recent trip to france
at www.co2balance.com

One issue doesn't cancel out the other. And the effects of global warming will affect the most poverty stricken first. I also get wound up with organic food that's carried halfway round the world - to my mind it simply cannot be truly organic if the carbon/pollution load of it's distribution is so great.

Good on the archbish. I get so fed up with people saying that cheap air travel is a vitally important part of modern life - it isn't! It's a luxury. More important to some than others, but still a luxury.

that's an interesting website cd I've bookmarked it to study later..

perhaps food companies should do food miles audits

Joellalie, IKWYIM - dh laughs at me for wanting organic and locally-sourced produce (loves it when i have a dilemma choosing between the 2!)..

it's good to be able to offset CO2 emissions but I'm in 2 minds about this. For some this cd just become a licence to still travel as much as before w/o thinking about alternatives - not going abroad as much or going by train etc.

Air travel should be much, much more expensive. It is doing horrendous damage to the planet and we are feeling the effects of global warming now. This govt is utterly pathetic in all aspects of the environment from farming to green energy. Yes, buy fairtrade but more importantly buy as local as possible because those peaches/lamb chops/avocados/tomato's that came halfway round the world cost alot more in environmental terms than the price you pay in the supermarket. It makes me so fucking angry when I hear people bleat on about being green and then buying SA apples or Spanish lettuce when there are far better british equivalents on the next shelf.

If this country was self sufficient, we wouldnt need so many flights bringing food in from other countries. Also, we need to get used to the idea that we don't actually need strawberries in winter and start to eat locally produced food as and when it is in season.

The rich, famous, governments etc need to set an example and stop hopping onto planes and heliecopters etc so much. For instance, why does Blair have to fly over to see Bush? Why can't they use email/webcams? Why does Prince Andrew fly to his golf matches? These are people who should be setting the example... they are high profile.

I don't agree with just making flights so expensive it prices out us 'normal' folks. That's not the way to go. The wealthy will just carry on as normal, flying here and there, willy nilly and making everyone jealous and thereby creating an attractive lifestyle that jo public will aspire to.

It would be better to make flying undesirable and not actually necessary.

'It would be better to make flying undesirable and not actually necessary. '

I find new 'security' measures have already done this.

It's too much of a faff - getting to the airport hours ahead, queueing, etc.

Imagine, in this heat, too?

We had an unbelievable holiday not even a hundred miles away.

There were six of us in one vehicle and we had gear all on our laps en route, but it was fab and you couldn't ask for more beautiful countryside.

Can't wait to see more of this beautiful island!

oooh....something that I am saving the planet with.....we never fly.

Mind, tis not because of worry about planet....more because I am too bloody scared to fly with five roudy kiddies. (would any of like too????).

I do have a big car tho (people carrier needed in this house), so am damaging things that way instead.

I have raised this type of question on here before about peoples driving and flying habits and sadly I am always met with replies from people damn sure that it is their god given right to drive and fly and that it is something that we have to do and can't realisticaly live without. Yet they will shout and scream when they see someone smoking because of the damage it is doing to their precious children.

Unfortunately these days people would rather live in luxury and comfort, sod the effects it has on the planet even though it means that our childrens, childrens children will have nothing to live for. It is the ultimate selfishness.

Have to admit that it's easy for me to say that air travel is a luxury 'cos we never do it either - well no for years now . Can't imagine anything more like hell on earth than flying with 3 young kids in tow.

We're off to Cornwall in August - we only live about 2.5 hours drive away so it's not a bad journey. We also spent the day at Putsborough Sands yesterday (N Devon) - not too far and a trule beautiful place. There is a lot to see in this country. Not to say that when the kids are older that we won't want to go abroad again, but for now UK does just fine. Holidays abroad should be a treat.

Hear, hear, FB! Was thinking about overseas hol and might not bother now for next yr, there is so much to see here and christ i go on about this enough so guess i should put my money where my mouth is! Anyone join me? !

Scotland for me next year. Haven't flown for ages.

Well, I really need to put my decisions where my mouth is!
I do everything I can, and DH laughs at me that I am unwilling to turn on a tiny little fan at night!

But shamefully I don't know how to solve the moral dilemma that all our family lives in two different continents, and none of them are in the UK, or Europe....

I do a couple of long haul flights every year with dd to see family in America. But, I don't run a car in London, and almost always walk/use public transport. Does that go any way toward doing my bit?

BTW - don't know if/when it will come to UK, but everyone with "green" concerns here in the States is talking about Al Gore's new documentary movie. It's all about what we've done/are doing to the environment, and it's supposed to be very sobering.

We don't have a car (although we do hire them we we need to) and try not to fly. I also try to by organic and local! I also try to recycle as much as possible otherwise what kind of life are our children going to have. As my dad says his generation got it right - they had all the benifits - air travel, cars etc with non of the consquences. It is our children and out grandchildren who are going to be the ones suffering and all the anaimls that have had no influence in this! People need to stop being selfinf - the govement has its hands tied - cut air travel, put up petrol etc and it will get voted out of power because people are too selfish to change their ways of life - like my friend wqo drives 5 minutes to drop her child off at nursery rather than a 15 minute walk! or my aunt who says she need to have a big polluting car becaus she lives in a nice house in the middle of nowwhere, or my neighbour who doesn't like our cats because they kill the birds in her garden but yet drives 30 minutes back so she can have her lunchbreak in her garden! It makes me so sad and cross because with people like this who cann't/don;t want to change our planet is fucked and our children will be the ones suffering!

well that's tricky - you've got more of an excuse for the occasional longhaul than most.

that was to FOT, btw

I would suggest that it isn't so much the occassional long-haul that is the problem, but the frequent short-haul flights. Those who have a main holiday somewhere hot and sunny, and then pick up a last-minute deal at half-term ...and then fly to some European city later in the year for a long-weekend. Cheaper flights have made it possible to fly more often - and it's that that had made the huge increase in air-travel possible.

Long-term maybe any lifestyle that relies on constant, frequent air travel will become impossible. But that is an unpatable truth to some people. Same as suggesting that a lifestyle that requires constant driving is unsustainable long-term

I am convinced that we can develop technologies that will allow us to 'save the planet' and carry on flying, driving etc but that it costs billions upon billions in R&D so it is easier to do nothing. Petro-chemical companies are also to blame as they are protecting their self-interests. It is also consumer driven - while we all drive, petrol & diesel will be produced to meet the demand. Solar panel for the home are expensive because nobody has them and nobody has them because they are expensive.

Echo your last post Callisto. I was chatting to our local farm manager at a party the other week and he reckoned he could be self-sufficient in bio-diesel, but the government make it too difficult and not worth it. The farm could grow all the oil seed rape it needs, plus extra, to run every vehicle they use. But the government would penalise them with so much tax it makes it unviable. So he has to carry on ordering fuel from the major oil companies, shipped from the middle east. How stupid is that.

early bird,
You ask if not running a car in London is doing your bit...
If you are american, I would say: Did you vote for Al Gore? I think the fact that we was not elected has caused a significant increase in greenhouse green emissions in the world, ISWIM.