M&S cashiers can refuse to handle pork and alcohol

[HermioneWeasley]

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/10532782/Muslim-staff-at-Marks-and-Spencer-can-refuse-to-sell-alcohol-and-pork.html

I would be extremely annoyed at being held up by someone refusing to "handle" alcohol and pork. After all, the stuff is either in bottles or cellophane so it's not coming into direct contact.

Personally, I wouldn't have this policy, but if m&S think it's reasonable to refuse, why not put employees who object in a different part of the store, instead of inconveniencing customers?

And before cries of racism and Islamaphobia start, my family are Muslim (though I am not) and would have no problem with putting bottles and packs through a checkout.

No, I strongly question why someones religious belief is deemed more important than someone else's beliefs.

It's not just this scenario, it's all over.

Nothing like the quote you posted, very insulting.

It does seem ridiculous. It's part of your job
Many, many people have aspects of their jobs which clash with religious beliefs. I know Christians who will be wiring Xmas day and Boxing Day and regular weekends because it's part of their job. I should imagine anyone stating they cannot with a Sunday would be given short shrift.

Someone's isn't. They said they accommodate all religious beliefs if they can. Not just Muslims. The mail seized on it being about Muslims.

Someone's isn't. They said they accommodate all religious beliefs if they can. Not just Muslims. The mail seized on it being about Muslims.

M&s's Percy pigs are immediately springing to mind - contain gelatine AND pig-shaped!
If I am buying alcohol I will avoid the queue that has a young-looking check out assistant, as I know they will have to fetch someone which holds me up. I would not like to think of people avoiding checkouts because a woman in hijab was working on it Also, will this make the many Muslims who are fine about handling these items (as part of their jobs) feel they are not "strict" enough Muslims?
Is the entire story out of proportion and about only one person in one village somewhere?

fanjo I'm talking about ALL religious beliefs verses other beliefs, like the example I used about vegetarians which evidently you chose to ignore.

Beast, "the weekend" for Christians started being only the Sunday, the lord's day. The weekend for the West is entirely focused around the Christian day of rest. Of course people whose day of rest is Saturday or Friday wouldn't expect to also have Sunday off- it's not their religion's day of rest so why would they?

Keep being suckered in by the Mail..adios

Fanjo - you are re-writing people's posts and constructing them in such a way as to appear bigoted, which is a pretty low thing to do.

Excellent, well thought out response there fanjo

I agree ubik, exactly what she did with mine.

It is ridiculous. Okay, so for example, say that a muslim works at a hotel as a receptionist. Would they be exempt from serving a homosexual couple who wish to book a room because it doesn't go with their believes?

My phone keeps changing words and posting twice. But I stand by my sentiments

Just a thought but if you work in retail and have certain very profound beliefs about handling some foodstuffs, you could seek work in a clothes shop or an electrical goods shop or a hardware store or something...

the link is to the telegraph, not the fail.

The article says "At M&S, Muslim staff who do not wish to handle alcohol or pork have been told they can politely request that customers choose another till at which to pay."

Which will mean re-queuing which will be a total PITA.

Also tons of stuff has pork / alcohol in. I think maybe they need to give signage and stuff? So like at the moment only till X has fags for eg they can say 1-6 = meat & alcohol, 7&8 veggie and non food products or whatever.

Fanjo may well have come to here straight from seeing some very unpleasant stuff. I don't think there's any doubt that it's out there. That would account for what I still think was an unfair reaction to what has actually been said here. But I think we have to realise that she cares about this issue, and having seen some stupid stuff out there, she was worried that we might all be equally stupid and simplistic.

It's a problem, actually. How can moderate people of all persuasions say something is bonkers, if we are immediately accused of racial or religious hatred? There has to be space for the moderate voice of common sense.

I am an atheist and I do feel that faith should be a private matter. Its not fair to expect special treatment and special days off at the expense of your colleagues and customers. I feel that equally strongly about Christians, Jews, and Muslims.

Stop harping on about the Mail seizing on Muslims Fanjo. The article linked to was in the Telegraph. I for one have not read the Mail, I can imagine what they have written and choose not to read it.

I agree with you duchesse.

duchesse I was thinking anout Christians in retail and health care who refuse to work Sundays.

What about just good ols fashioned non halal stuff - gelatine in jelly or sweets, christmas pud with booze in it, stuffing with pork...

If anyone did refuse to scan pork or booze they are just being 'lookkitmeeeee' arses. Nothing to do with it being against their religion (unless they are actually forced to lick the gammon or drink the boooze).

A few of my colleagues don't have to work sundays, personally I dont mind but it's harder on our off duty and more difficult to get a Sunday off.

An interesting question as well is whether a religious objection is / should be adhered to in the workplace while a moral one may not.

If a lifelong veggie said they were against handling meat or meat products, what kind of reaction would that get from M&S.

My feeling is that a strongly held moral belief is as strong as a religious belief but I don't think they would be upheld in the same way?

It's all a very interesting thing to think about really.

I am getting really tired of all this nonsense. If you dont want to handle pork or booze then dont work in a supermarket! Its not difficult! What next, claiming you dont want to work on certain days for all sorts of reasons?

^My feeling is that a strongly held moral belief is as strong as a religious belief but I don't think they would be upheld in the same way?

It's all a very interesting thing to think about really^

That's the point I was trying to make. I'm off the school that personal beliefs are on par with religious ones, but it would seem I'm few who think this.

Beast, I say, let them not work those days, and roster Muslim and Jewish staff on instead. The only (major) downside for those people would be that our entire society is predicated on a Christian model, meaning that the children are off school on the standard days, so rostering them on a Sunday curtails their family life.

In fact, if you think about it, (and please someone correct me if I'm wrong, I am an utter atheist), Muslims don't actually have a day of rest, they just have to observe prayer timetables and attend mosque on the Friday, the Jewish sabbath begins at sundown on Friday and goes into Saturday, and committed Christians are supposed not to work on the whole day of Sunday, so if any religion got the rawest end of the deal in terms of working arrangements, Muslims would come off the worst as they don't actually have an official day of rest.

duchesse that plan would also fail quite spectacularly in areas where there aren't any/many non christian people!