M&S cashiers can refuse to handle pork and alcohol

[HermioneWeasley]

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/10532782/Muslim-staff-at-Marks-and-Spencer-can-refuse-to-sell-alcohol-and-pork.html

I would be extremely annoyed at being held up by someone refusing to "handle" alcohol and pork. After all, the stuff is either in bottles or cellophane so it's not coming into direct contact.

Personally, I wouldn't have this policy, but if m&S think it's reasonable to refuse, why not put employees who object in a different part of the store, instead of inconveniencing customers?

And before cries of racism and Islamaphobia start, my family are Muslim (though I am not) and would have no problem with putting bottles and packs through a checkout.

I really could not care less about having to wait five minutes whilst someone else runs my wine through the till or even going to another checkout.

I suspect they will place staff that this affects elsewhere in the store .

My shopping is not a matter of life and death, someone's religious beliefs are.

When I'm going to the shops to buy my veg, my shopping is more important than someone's beliefs, absolutely. I really couldn't care less, I want to get my shit done and get out. People are way too cocooned in bubble wrap in this country, totally indulged with their beliefs and all that crap. Yes I am cunt yada yada, heard it all before.

But what's more important? Your Shopping and 5 minutes of extra time queuing or someone's beliefs?

My shopping and 5 minutes of extra time is more important. I am happy to respect others believe all manner of gods, but I'm not prepared to have their interpretation of a holy book dictate where I can and cannot queue in a shop which is a non-religious building.

Anyway, it's a moot point because in reality all that would happen is that the supervisor would be called over and the item would be scanned by them.

But it's not five mins. It's Xmas.ques are massive and if half the shopping seen scanned a supervisor has to void it off and then it's back in the trolly then to the back of another long queue. One that's twice as long as everyone's moved over after seeing the problem you just had.

"But what's more important? Your Shopping and 5 minutes of extra time queuing or someone's beliefs?"

The M&S that I shop at regularly has queues of 20 minutes. As for someone's beliefs, I believe that you should do the job that you are paid to do.

5 minutes in M&S at Christmas? Have you been to M&S recently KingRollo?!

The next till might refuse to serve you as well though! So then you'd need to go onto the next queue etc etc.

The sheer volume of items with booze / pork derivatives in them mean that a very high proportion of people would be moved onto different tills, so there would be extra-long queues to join at those tills.

Logistically it sounds like a bit of a nightmare!

So say you have a trolley of stuff. Near the bottom you have some chicken wrapped in prosciutto. So when it gets to that bit it's a STOP and not serve. So at that point do all the things that have been put through the till and packed need to be reversed back through?

Sound complicated.

Hmmm
As I said, I'm a vegetarian. But I often grab lunch at M&S, and sometimes the queues are so slow, and I eat my lunch in the line and they scan the packaging.
Sooooo if I wasn't veggie, bought a pork sandwich and ate it in the line, so all they had to do was scan the empty packaging, would that work?
What if the customer scanned the product instead of the cashier?
Perhaps M&S will go to entirely self service or self scan, like whichever supermarket has done. Then the cashier wouldn't have to touch anything.
Possibilities and options.

Well, I'd like all products that contain dead stuff to have a special sign on them, so that I didn't get snuck up on. Like a poleaxe or a skull or something.
Perhaps M&S could do that, so that Muslims and Hindus and Jains and Buddhists and vegetarians would know.
I still miss marshmallows rather than bacon.

"But what's more important? Your Shopping and 5 minutes of extra time queuing or someone's beliefs?"

I can hardly believe you said that, but I think it should be preserved somewhere for people to look and marvel.

You know there are people who believe we shouldn't eat meat at all. I hope you are going to respect that too and become a vegetarian.

Then there's the thing about stepping on ants. I hope you have a broom with you.

It is naïve to suggest that customers only need to avoid pork, gelatine and alcohol, or sherry trifles etc.

From the Islamic bulletin
Pork products are sometimes used to make snack foods such as puddings, jello, chips, crackers, cookies, donuts and marshmallows including marshmallow bits in cereal and hot cocoa. Pork products are also found in some brands of cake frosting, cheese spreads, yogurt, margarine, and ice cream. Look for words like lard, animal fats, animal glyceride, hydrolyzed animal protein, enzymes, emulsifiers, monostearates, mono and di-glyceride and gelatin on the label when you buy these products. Dairy products such as whipped cream, sour cream and cheese may also contain gelatin or rennet. Rennet is an enzyme which turns milk solids into cheese. Animal rennet is most often used. Look for mono and di-glyceride (forms of glycerine), or enzymes on the label. They may not all be made with pork but the only way to know for sure is to contact the company or look for the Kosher marking (K or U) on the label. Pork in the form of glycerine, keratin, collagen and tallow are used in cosmetics and toiletries. Some common ones that contain pork or pork by-products are lipstick, shaving cream, toothpaste, had lotion, bath soap and shampoos. Pork is also hidden in detergents, cleansers, dish liquids, and soaps.

Some medications may also contain pork products; the most common is the gelatin coated tablet of the gelatin capsule (gelcaps). The Physicians Desk Reference is a reliable source that we can refer to for the names, ingredients, indications, reactions and brands of every prescription and non-prescription drug or medication on the market.

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Let's also remember that all Kroger products contain gelatine, then there's marshmallows, some sauces, some gravy, some bagged seasoning mixes, cream soda, Kelloggs Rice Krispie Treat squares, Special K Protein Snack bars, Kelloggs Fruit Snacks, Sara lee Classic Cheesecake, Sara Lee Strawberry French cheesecake, Sara Lee Tangy Lemon Meringue pie, Trident Layers gum, Trident Splash Gum, Krafters Dry Roasted Peanuts, Mentos sweets and chewing gum, Clorets Gum and the list goes on and on.

If there were to be a muslim who refuses any product with pork in, it is foolish to think that the average customer will know which products these are.

I haven't even started on the alcohol list.

I believe that this is in the papers as they can't find the usual "nativity banned" or whatever the usual headline is. But it is interesting to see how people would react.

And it makes for a good discussion.

Exactly, littlemiss.
A symbol would help lots of customers.

refuses to sell any product with pork in

I woudn't chose to change queues tbh. Why would I want to take all my shopping back off the conveyor belt, back into my trolley, then push it to a whole new queue, wait again - and then repeat the whole taking everything out, onto conveyor and everything again.

I would accept that they may need to get another person to ring things through for me at the initial till - just like when an underge teen is on a till and I have alcohol. That doesn't generally inconvenience me beyong a minute or so.

But I woudn't move tills and put myself out loads for it.

KingRollo, where's that magical M&S with 5-minute queues?
It's 20-30 minutes at ours.

One of my core beliefs is that it's wrong to be a half-an-hour late to pick up the kids.

Time matters - IME as a single parent, but lots of people for many reasons don't have that extra half-hour.

kingRollo

Both of my local shops are run by muslims, both sell pork products and alcohol.

Its a storm in a tea cup.

You know - even if it is just 5 monutes why should I have that inconvenience?

Why can the management not provide an alternative, like they do when a teen is on the tills and alcohol comes up? Or you need signs of some form to let people know in advance.

People can have their beliefs That is not an issue. But the customer should not be inconvenienced in order to enable that. The store should put things in place to ensure that their most valuable asset - their customer base - is not ut out in any way.

Does anybody know a single Muslim that would chose to work in a shop that would really want this?

Exactly BoneyBack - it's a storm in a teacup, and won't happen because M&S know that there would be a lot of customers who would either refuse to budge from the queue or who would just shrug, leave their stuff on the conveyor belt and walk away.

There is of course the issue as well that pork has been found in lots of food products that weren't supposed to contain it. So really anything containing meat + the list above needs to be viewed with suspicion.

I would agree with hulababy that getting someone else to ring it through would be more appropriate. However as a general rule I dont' think that people should decide to do jobs where they are going to be unable to perform a fundamental part of the job - see also GPs who won't prescribe contraceptives, nurses who don't want to nurse people recovering from certain procedures etc.

Completely agree NiceTabard.