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Child taken by from womb by forced C/S for social services!

999 replies

StarlightMcKenzie · 30/11/2013 22:38

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10486452/Woman-has-child-taken-from-her-womb-by-social-services.html

Could there ever be a justifiable reason for this?

OP posts:
claig · 02/12/2013 18:10

'I can only imagine that this decision to perform a CS was made for her own safety as well as the baby's.'

I think the caesarean was 5 weeks after her sectioning. Someone correct me please if that is wrong.

Spero · 02/12/2013 18:12

Well said Maryz.

Given it is confirmed she cannot care for elder children by virtue of order of Italian courts, not quite sure why my pondering merits such a shocked face.

WhatAgain · 02/12/2013 18:13

LA's do not abide by the Law, its a fact, they get taken to Tribunals on a daily basis to ensure that they do!

^^And that really is a fact. A whole industry (experts, lawyers, barristers, advocates, etc etc ) has developed because of LAs breaking the law designed to protect vulnerable disabled children and their education!

Hendricksandcucumber · 02/12/2013 18:15

Essex have issued a response to this, I can't link from my phone but if you google it it should come up. It notes that Italian authorities have deemed the mother unfit and Essex liaised extensively with extended family members before freeing the child for adoption. While I am sad for the mother I think in the limited context of which we are aware this is the best case scenario for the child.

IneedAsockamnesty · 02/12/2013 18:16

Does anyone have a link to ECC statement?

Spero · 02/12/2013 18:17

Well said sock.

I often represent parents. The cases against them are not always well made.

But sometimes the LA have waited a shockingly long time to rescue children who really needed it.

Neither failing puts the system in a great light. But neither proves the truth of even 10% of some of the allegations about deliberate systemic corruption.

Spero · 02/12/2013 18:18

Sorry, can't link - it was a tweet and I am on iPad. But should be easy to find.

YoDiggity · 02/12/2013 18:19

Are you saying that the fact that she was already sectioned was not justification for performing the CS Claig? I think if a woman is in a highly psychotic state and is highly distressed, agitated or hysterical then the HCP's would have a very tough time indeed trying to manage a safe natural birth.

Whistleblower0 · 02/12/2013 18:20

But essex would say that wouldn't they? They've got form haven't they?

WhatAgain · 02/12/2013 18:20

ECC's Statement

YoDiggity · 02/12/2013 18:21

Sorry that was badly worded. I mean do you think that the fact she was already sectioned would have negated the need to perform a CS as some sort of emergency measure.

claig · 02/12/2013 18:25

"Are you saying that the fact that she was already sectioned was not justification for performing the CS Claig?"

No, I am wondering why she couldn't have been sent back to Italy in the five weeks that she appears to have been sectioned and taken to Italian SS.

Maryz · 02/12/2013 18:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Maryz · 02/12/2013 18:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

confuddledDOTcom · 02/12/2013 18:29

Sockreturningpixie, I'm sure I know those cases... Hmm

Grin
Maryz · 02/12/2013 18:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NanaNina · 02/12/2013 18:33

Claig I wouldn't believe that JH "raising this in parliament" is going to make any difference, as a) I doubt he will and b) parliament won't be aware of the facts and it's not a matter for parliament to debate. I think JH's reputation goes before him in parliament to be honest. He was on Midlands Today recently making some absurd claims on his pet theory and the newscaster Nick Owen said a couple of times "I don't know what you are talking about" and indeed it was sheer gobbled gook. My DP is a member of the Co-Op party and was at their national conference earlier in the year and his name cropped up and the Liberal MP from the North made a very derogatory comment about him. Let me just say the word "barmy" was used!

I see we have some posters talking about Baby P - the "damned if they do and damned if they don't brigade." It is a fact that social services in this current economic climate is really struggling to recruit and retain experienced social workers. No amount of work in college can prepare someone for life at the "coal face" and is it any wonder that so many social workers are leaving and many off with stress related illnesses. In addition many departments are trying to run a service on 30% vacancy rates and they can't fill the posts because this coalition have demanded such huge savings in budgets. Most of you probably know Birmingham City SSD has been found "unfit for purpose" and there was high handed talk from the govt they would "take it over" but they've since done a U turn and are sending in advisors. I bet they couldn't find anyone who would take it on. All these people who think they could do the job better and not make mistakes - I just wish they could follow a social worker around for a week to see what the job really entails.

FWIW I think the comments made by this Nevres Kamal are highly likely to be fiction. Where did you read that Claig in the DM?

Whatagain I can imagine you are struggling to get the help you need for your child with special needs. This is because of the massive cuts in budgets that all public services are having to make because of this coalition. It's the bankers who started this problem by their greed in offering sub prime mortgages and loans to people who couldn't afford the repayments that are the real culprits, but Cameron et al seek to cut public services because they have no liking for public services and want to privatise them all. Furthermore in my opinion they are not concerned about the most disadvantaged people and children in our society - they have shown a callous disregard for sick and disabled people in telling them they are fit for work.

Hello Maryz the voice of reason: yes JH admits that he provides finance for parents who are involved with Social Services and assists them to leave the country. That an elected MP can do this I find is disgraceful.

claig · 02/12/2013 18:33

'claig, could she have been allowed to travel if she was suffering from, for example, some sort of psychosis?'

I think that should be explained. In the height of her panic attack, she seems to be have been sectioned and travelled to the clinic or whereever she was taken. In the following 5 weeks, what was her state and could she have been accompanied back to Italy?

claig · 02/12/2013 18:35

'it may have proven very difficult to fly her back to Italy'

Yes, but there is rail and road.

confuddledDOTcom · 02/12/2013 18:37

The link to ECC said pretty much what I've been expecting since I heard about it. If JH (and worse BF) hadn't been involved I wouldn't have been as sceptical as I was from the off.

claig · 02/12/2013 18:40

'FWIW I think the comments made by this Nevres Kamal are highly likely to be fiction. Where did you read that Claig in the DM?'

It was in the Daily Mirror. And if this was fiction

"Nevres, 44, exposes how staff were taken on “team-building” jaunts to Barcelona and Dublin and blew £1,600 on tea parties at the Ritz. Back in their office, urgent files were piled high and ignored. Children like Baby P who needed the department’s protection were shamefully let down. "

then why wasn't she sued, since this was all about a very serious high profile tragedy?

Spero · 02/12/2013 18:40

If you want to ensure someone leaves the country, you don't send them by 'rail and road'.

claig · 02/12/2013 18:44

'If you want to ensure someone leaves the country, you don't send them by 'rail and road'.'

You accompany them, someone goes with them and meets Italian SS or someone asks Italian SS to come over.

And if SS are so stretched then what were these people doing spending public money on this

"staff were taken on “team-building” jaunts to Barcelona and Dublin and blew £1,600 on tea parties at the Ritz"

tea parties at the Ritz?

Who is controlling this expenditure?

mrselgar · 02/12/2013 18:46

Nananina, I agree with everything you said.

Spero · 02/12/2013 18:46

So who is volunteering to escort an unwilling woman, who may or may not be psychotic on the coach back to Rome? Do you suggest she is shackled or sedated for the journey?