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News

Child taken by from womb by forced C/S for social services!

999 replies

StarlightMcKenzie · 30/11/2013 22:38

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10486452/Woman-has-child-taken-from-her-womb-by-social-services.html

Could there ever be a justifiable reason for this?

OP posts:

Report

MadameDefarge · 03/12/2013 17:34

In the olden days it would have meant that by sharing her story in the Italian press, the UK press would have been in contempt to have covered it in the UK if they had also published her name.

With the internet it means its all a bit of a mess now.

But that does not mean we can say whatever we like.

MadameDefarge · 03/12/2013 17:36

those are Italian papers bound by Italian law, not by UK law.

DrankSangriaInThePark · 03/12/2013 17:36

Ah, Ok. Thanks.

Spero · 03/12/2013 17:37

Because the U.K. Court has no jurisdiction in Italy

Spero · 03/12/2013 17:40

I have no doubt the mother is behaving in his way because she feels she has nothing left to lose and is being encouraged by the usual suspects who are using her as pawn in their battle against the family courts.

Funny how they are all men.

claig · 03/12/2013 17:41

'The judgment says that the circumstances in which she came to be sectioned were unclear'

Yes, we don't have enough information to know. I was quoting what Booker said.

Going by what Booker says, and we don't know if it is accurate or not, "If she had a serious psychotic episode at the airport" would it be the usual procedure for police to say they are taking her to a hospital or would MH staff come to the airport?

Spero · 03/12/2013 17:43

I don't know what usual procedures are but I am guessing the police would need to act quickly to get her somewhere safe

LakeDistrictBabe · 03/12/2013 17:44

Italian papers are not bound by British law, but I'm not sure that the mother played that well if me, from UK, can access a source in Italy anyway.. wrong?
How many people on how many forum can see that? I guess someone in Essex too?

@MadameDefarge we can say whatever we like, unless it is us breaking the law. Which, in this case, doesn't apply. Unfortunately I know what to say and what not to say very well, because I had a terrible experience with the Crown Office.
And believe me, you're very restricted to release details in rape and abuse cases.

claig · 03/12/2013 17:45

I agree, but would they be skilled enough to know how to deal with someone in that state, and we don't know what state she was actually in?

Maryz · 03/12/2013 17:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LakeDistrictBabe · 03/12/2013 17:47

Has anyone read the transcription of the court order posted on the other page?

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/Misc/2013/20.html

4.The background is an unhappy one. The mother, as I say, has had two previous children, both are currently cared for by their grandmother and the mother as long ago, she told me in evidence, as 2007, has had problems with her mental health. There have been admissions to psychiatric hospitals in Italy and of the three admissions of which I am aware one was voluntary and two were enforced. My understanding of the documents from Italy which are many and are helpful, is that the mother was treated in 2008. It appears subsequently she was in the USA for a time and during 2010 and 2011, the preceding years, she had been most unwell.

Spero · 03/12/2013 17:50

I think I would feel confident that the police would have a reasonably good idea how to handle someone mentally I'll and agitated - this situation is pretty usual for them.

Spero · 03/12/2013 17:52

Maryz I think a few people are operating on the principle hat the more you repeat something, the truer it becomes

claw2 · 03/12/2013 17:55

Sorry Nenny, i was rushing out of the door as i typed, yes it was a 'sigh' and not a 'sign'!

I would love to stay and discuss some more, however I have dinner to cook, so I will bale out for now.

Traffic yes good point, I hadn't read it like that.

LakeDistrictBabe · 03/12/2013 17:55

@MadameDefarge given that some of you seemed bothered by a name published online, despite wrong, I reported my own post.
I hope there won't be further issues.

exexpat · 03/12/2013 17:56

The police are probably as experienced as anyone in dealing with mental health crises. They spend an awful lot of their time dealing with people with mental health problems - they are in the front line, which is probably not how it should be, but many people having acute mental health emergencies end up in police cells.

claig · 03/12/2013 17:59

exexpat, from the article you linked to

"The Independent Commission on Mental Health and Policing highlighted the need for appropriate care for vulnerable people who are held in custody and for no one to be transferred to hospital in a police van."

johnhemming · 03/12/2013 18:00

I haven't got the time to do a detailed response. However, the published judgment is essentially the same as the judgment that I saw before commenting on the case.

Essex have clearly not followed international law in respect of this case and as is often the case the system has ignored the option of care within the wider family.

The Italian equivalent of the NCCL consider this to be a "brutal violation of human rights".

It may be that practitioners in the UK are so used to treating people badly that they don't see what is wrong. However, my view has not changed on this case since last week when I first saw the judgment.

LakeDistrictBabe · 03/12/2013 18:02

Ok, mystery solved I guess. Off to prepare dinner for DH.

Bye ladies, it has been a pleasure.

Spero · 03/12/2013 18:02

Which aspects of international law do you consider breached ?

Spero · 03/12/2013 18:03

Presumably then we will soon see an appeal?

LakeDistrictBabe · 03/12/2013 18:04

@johnhemming
The Italian equivalent of the NCCL consider this to be a "brutal violation of human rights".

Strange, because in Italian that doesn't seem true. British sources are mounting a case to support a political agenda, exploiting the desperation of a mother. Shame on them.

Spero · 03/12/2013 18:07

That would be letting the truth get in the way of a good story! Pity for JH we have native Italian speaker on the thread

LakeDistrictBabe · 03/12/2013 18:12

Yes, Spero.

Let's give to JH the exclusive news that the mother was interviewed by a known Italian magazine today (Panorama) and all the child's rights to anonymity were waived because she wants her daughter back despite she's a psychiatric mess and not even the Italian SS let the other two daughters stay with her because the elder was terrified.

Mmm.. better I go on with cooking the soup lol

exexpat · 03/12/2013 18:14

claig - I didn't say it was a good thing that the police have lots of experience handling people in mental health crises, just pointing out that they do.

I think it is generally a bad thing, but given the cuts to mental health services, I think the prospect of setting up a nationwide psychiatric emergency system, which can respond instantly to disturbed and possibly violent individuals, is remote to say the least.

Flip

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