Why I No Longer Feel Comfortable Wearing a Poppy

[Geckos48]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/madeleine-fry/poppy-day_b_4169581.html

very eloquently put. Exactly how I feel about the whole debacle.

November 11th should be for those who selflessly gave their lives in the World Wars, not those who chose to fight dubious campaigns abroad.

Yes, I really believe that. I do not think that bombarding countries with weapons and bomb helps people.

I think you would agree if it were our country being bombarded with weapons and bombs.

Er, I wont be wearing a red poppy and I most certainly will NEVER donate to 'help for heroes'

I dont know how you can be against war but for soldiers. I dont get it at all.

November 11th should be for the WW's, thats my point of view.

There were 900,000 Iraqis killed between 1980 and 2009. 800,000 of them were killed before the invasion of 2003. 100,000 after.

Who knows, if we hadn't intervened in 2003, maybe there would have been another 400,000 instead.

I think you aren't someone I have much in common with really.

I would say that 99.9% of people that join the Forces don't do so in the hope they can go off and kill someone .

My Dad is 70. He left school at 14 barely being able to read and write. He joined the Army as soon as he could.He did 22 years, was in the Radfan, the Falklands ,UN work in Cyprus etc. He got exams, saw places he'd never have got to see, helped many, many people. He also saw horrific sights. He would never have got the opportunities that he did if he had stayed working in thefactory. In fact he would probably have been out if a job. All the factories in this town are long gone.

My brother joined up from school. He left school with a handful of cses and O Levels, at the absolute height of unemployment. He also did 22 years. He is a highly qualified engineer now. Again because of the Army.

Like or not it is seen as a career.

Ah yes, the elephant in the room.

The bombs that we sell to barstards.

The training that we gave to Saddam.

Regulating the arms trade would save lives. Bombing people (oddly) does not.

Oh and I live in Northern Ireland and we don't put ' ' around the word Northern when filling in forms etc. Just so you know.

Oh well if it gives people careers! Lets just carry on bombing the world!

I mean its worth it, if it gives people careers (never mind the lives it destroys)

Saddam wasn't just our ally, Saddam was trained by us and put there by us.

When Saddam started increasing the prices of oil and goods, thats when we started fight him. It was nothing to do with human rights.

Thousands were dying before the world got involved. I'm Iraqi (from the wrong side, for Saddam) and many, many relatives of mine were killed. My dad was killed. Whole villages wiped out. Many of my male relatives were in concentration camps ffs. I don't really want to talk about stuff like this on MN, but I just want to say that I wear the poppy to remember the people who died and who saved us. I also remember the people who died in WW1 and 2, especially because they had no choice whatsoever in fighting, and no choice whatsoever in risking their lives. Our country was destroyed by Saddam LONG before the war, and the war devastated Iraq too, but ultimately it freed us.

War should ALWAYS be the last option. Peace first. Diplomacy before everything. Ensuring businesses and country leaders aren't allowing and enabling horrors for the sake of money (selling arms, and so on), but sometimes I think war is the last but correct resort.

But Saddam was there and supported and funded by us.

You cannot separate the two just because we decided to turn on him.

he wouldnt have had the power or the weapons had it not been for us.

The UN will always be weak. 10 mumsnetters dont agree with each other, so 10 countries are not going to.
The concept is good though.

Yes it was a career for my Dad, whats wrong with that? He did more good in those 22 years than some thieving banker would do in his chosen career.

I dont think we ever defend human rights abuses, that is evident from our history. We are interested in personal gain and capitalism.

Bombing people (?) does not save lives.

I agree. He was funded by us. Not by the soldiers though, they joined up and fought the war which helped us. I disagree with pretty much everything the UK/other countries did up until they joined the war (and the pretty much helped create the situation- it could so easily have been stopped beforehand, before a war tbh) but the soldiers deserve to be remembered. I can the the leaders and thank the soldiers.

'Farm, live and grow'

Then accuse others of 'bloody emotive claptrap'.

Naive and insulting.
But your right to these opinions is what ALL British Armed Forces, conscripted and professional, modern and historic, Army, Navy or RAF, have been fighting for.

Worth a poppy?

Nobody has fought for my 'freedom of speech' since the second world war.

Because nobody has tried to invade us, since the second world war.

I would like November 11th to be about that freedom.

I'm glad to hear you say that Twit, and I'm very sorry for the loss of your father. I am proud of the work that I and my fellow soldiers and friends did in Iraq, and I am glad you think it was worth it. One life saved, one female educated, one baby innoculated is enough for me.

Please explain to me how one other war since WW11 was fought 'for my freedom of speech'

please give me one example of an act of terrorism on British soil committed for any other reason than the wars we are involved in abroad?

Warrington.
Brighton.