Why I No Longer Feel Comfortable Wearing a Poppy

[Geckos48]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/madeleine-fry/poppy-day_b_4169581.html

very eloquently put. Exactly how I feel about the whole debacle.

November 11th should be for those who selflessly gave their lives in the World Wars, not those who chose to fight dubious campaigns abroad.

Er, thanks for the Wikipedia link (lame)

I know what remembrance day is used for now, it was never its original purpose though.

Iraq was already war torn because of its war with Iran. Guess who supplied weapons to those countries and how many people died?

I understand that. At the same time if we hadn't supplied weapons someone else would have. It goes back to what Gecko said about the arms trade needing to be restricted. I agree 100% with that but it is a separate issue to weather or not you wear a poppy.

I disagree, without anyone to fire them (and without public support of those people) there would be much less need for weapons.

The world runs on realpolitik not idealism and utopias, and Marxist or Soviet regimes invaded countries to gain ascendancy, so of course every country needs a military force in order not to be defenceless in a world or realpolitik, or to achieve its strategic aims in a world of realpolitik.

Any leader who gains power, whether communist, Marxist or not (e.g. Stalin), is necessarily engaged in realpolitik since that is how the world works and always will work.

Armistice Day

The date was declared a national holiday in many allied nations, to commemorate those members of the armed forces who were killed during war. An exception is Italy, where the end of the war is commemorated on 4 November, the day of the Armistice of Villa Giusti.

Are you going to argue with that too, Gecko?

Whenever I have been to Remembrance day services they have mentioned ALL that died in the WW's and those who served in current wars.

It was about all those who gave their lives for freedom, something that we have not remembered or respected. Only using it now to glorify wars that we do not need to fight.

'I disagree, without anyone to fire them (and without public support of those people) there would be much less need for weapons.'

There will always be public support because without them a country would be defenceless. When the Russians captured Berlin, people fired weapons in a last ditch attempt to protect themselves from what would happen to them.

The elite want to dismantle nation states and create a one world government where they say that wars will no longer exist (similar to the Marxist drea of a one world government). But this will still have an NKVD equivalent and a world force that will subjugate rebellious regions of teh world who do not wish to succumb to tyranny.

There will always be weapons and soldiers as long as there is freedom, and even when freeedom is lost, there will be weapons and soldiers who are used to maintain dictatorial rule.

I actually thought clam had made a point then and had to double take, but I see its actually claig

I think that the marxist ideal is better than the capitalist model, I think that freedom is something that alludes us now more than ever and I dont think we will ever achieve freedom whilst being judged by our profit-making potential.

The elite want to undermine nation states and Marxists are their puppets and are one of their tool to do this with aims such as unilateral disarmament and undermining national police forces and armies in order to make countries and peoples defenceless. But their ultimate aim is to inflict tyranny on the people through the use of force.

Unfortunately the Marxist ideal failed. It didn't take into account human nature.

George Orwell's - Animal Farm shows why.

So, you've been proved wrong yet again and you come back with Remembrance Day is now used to glorify wars that we do not need to fight!

You really are something else!

'I dont think we will ever achieve freedom whilst being judged by our profit-making potential.'

Unlike the Soviet or Marxist systems which enforce "equality" and restrict liberty, we are able to earn money due to our labour and if we invent things then we can earn more than others. We do not need to belong to a political party in order to advance and we do not need to share the views of that party, we are free to disagree with the lot of them and free to make and keep our own money.

Aand you are free to hold Marxist type views, and because we have democratic elections, the majority view will determine what type of system we live under. That is more freedom than the utopian gangsters ever offered their peoples.

We live in a free country and whether people want to wear a red poppy, a white poppy or no poppy at all, then that is their right, and it is their right to argue for any option.

I don't recall you answering my question about Stalin, except the Freudian slip with my name shows you at least read it!

What about all those poppies in Afghanistan that have caused so much loss of life?

Back we didn’t have a large force there. Large forces are expensive. That was why the Govt needed to run it down. And ‘nukes’?, do you want to run that by me again?

double

You bugger!

Hope you're not expecting an answer Double??
Seems too rational a point for serious consideration...

Are you talking about heroin production double?

I work with the young man who was the most injured survivor of the Iraq war. He was there to dispose of bombs to protect civilians and had both legs and an arm blown off aged just 20. He also suffered massive internal injuries.

I agree that attacking other countries isn't on, but he wasn't there to attack anyone and if buying a poppy shows him that he isn't just disabled and forgotten from his efforts to help innocent civilians, then I'll do it with pride.