Why I No Longer Feel Comfortable Wearing a Poppy

[Geckos48]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/madeleine-fry/poppy-day_b_4169581.html

very eloquently put. Exactly how I feel about the whole debacle.

November 11th should be for those who selflessly gave their lives in the World Wars, not those who chose to fight dubious campaigns abroad.

I asked 6 questions at 13:17 to be told 'WW2 was different' and then you went on to ask why we didn't remember paramedics etc which had been question 3.

I absolutely don't separate the troops from the government you are right.

i am against war, those who engineer it AND those who fight in it.

I dont really understand saying you are pro-soldiers but anti-war.

I still believe that if we'd have defended them properly we'd have saved a lot of blood and money

limitedperiodonly, I meant to say before, but this was one time where having a large force there and loudly declaring we'd nuke anyone who came near might have worked.

I'm not totally in love with the idea of deterrents, but clearly sometimes it works.

May because we are pro soldiers keeping the peace.

I am saying that the original point of remembrance sunday was to remember all people who died in the first two wars and to use that memory to not let it happen again. Not just soldiers but also civilians and people on the home front.

Making remembrance day about everyone who ever fought in the armed forces forgets those other people.

I dont agree we do 'keep peace'

Ask how peaceful it is for the people of Afghanistan, or Pakistan, or Iraq.

We do not 'bring peace' with our weapons and military, quite the opposite.

Making remembrance day about everyone who ever fought in the armed forces forgets those other people

Why does it?

I think what you are saying is you are pro soldiers keeping your peace, in your cosy little homes with your cosy throw-away capitalist culture.

Whereas I think that is no reason to create war-torn countries around the world and perhaps everyone deserves a choice.

Because it focuses on the armed forces, not the civilians. If it focused on all housewives who have died in housefires because some of those who died in the WW died in housefires then it would be forgetting all the other people that died because of other things wouldn't it!

Remembrance sunday was never meant to be about soldiers, it was meant to be about all people who gave their lives. Now it is all about the armed forces which totally removes the message that it gave. Particularly as our armed forces do the very opposite of what it suggested we do.

I think what you are saying is you are pro soldiers keeping your peace, in your cosy little homes with your cosy throw-away capitalist culture

You're on Mumsnet using a smart phone or a computer or a laptop, you have benefited from capitalism haven't you?

You're equally as cosy as the rest of us you profess to despise.

Again, Marxism, its all part of the process.

Yes I have benefitted from capitalism, mostly because I have had a decent education. That doesnt mean I can't see a better world for everyone.

Jesus Christ on a Bike, listen to yourself!

Fucking Hell.

"Ask how peaceful it is for the people of Afghanistan, or Pakistan, or Iraq."
"Whereas I think that is no reason to create war-torn countries around the world and perhaps everyone deserves a choice."

Have you read TwitTwoos posts? Your telling us to take account of her views and yet you are ignoring them.
I'll admit I don't know much about Iraq, but from TwitTwoos posts it seems that they were war-torn by civil war long before we intervened.

'limitedperiodonly, I meant to say before, but this was one time where having a large force there and loudly declaring we'd nuke anyone who came near might have worked.

I'm not totally in love with the idea of deterrents, but clearly sometimes it works.'

We wouldn't have been allowed to. I am sure the US would not have agreed to it. The era of gunboat diplomacy is over, we no longer rule the world and using nukes over the Falklands would cause world uproar and Latin american uproar and UN uproar and therefore we could not have used them over the Falklands.

twittwoos is ONE person, these countries are made up of millions of people

I had a friend who was a (none army) journalist in Afghanistan, the message he brought back was very simple, when the Taliban was in charge, it was shit. It was shit because if you stepped out of line you got beaten or killed. But you knew what to do and what not to do.

Now there is a complete mish-mash, nobody is in 'control' so you end up with farm boys with guns who run around and shoot you because you aren't doing things their way, even though you dont know what their way is.

Unless we can instil a system that works better than the one we are destroying, we shouldnt destroy it and that is exactly what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Arrogant enough to 'free' people without really taking into account what that really means.

Well we supplied Assads gas, probably because we knew that the news coverage would make people 'want something DONE'

"I'll admit I don't know much about Iraq, but from TwitTwoos posts it seems that they were war-torn by civil war long before we intervened."

We backed Saddam at one time. The West gave him some chemical weapons and trained his military etc.

"One thing is that the current generation of politicians do not know war. The ones after WW2 knew war as did the ones after WW1. They knew death and the trenches. They'd lost families, children and parents. That's probably one of the reasons WW2 was so reluctantly entered into."

Completely agree with this. One of the main reasons for WW1 was that back then war was still considered a valid political tool. In the 50 years before WW1 no war on the continent had lasted longer than 10 months. The governments were far too quick to decide to go to war, which should always be a last resort.

"I'm not sure what I'm trying to say here. I am glad we have a military to protect us. It's sad we need protecting but that's the world we live in"

This x1000. I wish we lived in the perfect world the OP thinks we live in, where Marxism and diplomacy would work, but unfortunately we don't. Diplomatic sanctions mean nothing to corrupt governments and unfortunately there are many corrupt governments in the world today. The OP has suggested nothing that would actually work in todays world.

You should read this Geckos.

A bit of advice, next time you start a thread read up on the subject first, then you won't look like such a silly Billy!

We all have to want to achieve it kim no one person has the answers.

But we are in a better position than most, we do not have war knocking on our door, we do not have poverty and famine and disease.

I am being told that because I am privileged I should not be looking for better solutions to the worlds problems, I say that is exactly why I should.

We didnt just train his military, we trained Saddam himself.