Why I No Longer Feel Comfortable Wearing a Poppy

[Geckos48]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/madeleine-fry/poppy-day_b_4169581.html

very eloquently put. Exactly how I feel about the whole debacle.

November 11th should be for those who selflessly gave their lives in the World Wars, not those who chose to fight dubious campaigns abroad.

Yay! So now I know where gecko has got all her ideas from! Anyone remember this old Monty Python sketch?

Alan: Hello.

Noel: Hello.

Alan: Well, last week we showed you how to become a gynaecologist. And this week on 'How to do it' we're going to show you how to play the flute, how to split an atom, how to construct a box girder bridge, how to irrigate the Sahara Desert and make vast new areas of land cultivatable, but first, here's Jackie to tell you all how to rid the world of all known diseases.

Jackie: Hello, Alan.

Alan: Hello, Jackie.

Jackie: Well, first of all become a doctor and discover a marvellous cure for something, and then, when the medical profession really starts to take notice of you, you can jolly well tell them what to do and make sure they get everything right so there'll never be any diseases ever again.

Alan: Thanks, Jackie. Great idea. How to play the flute. (picking up a flute) Well here we are. You blow there and you move your fingers up and down here.

Noel: Great, great, Alan. Well, next week we'll be showing you how black and white people can live together in peace and harmony, and Alan will be over in Moscow showing us how to reconcile the Russians and the Chinese. So, until next week, cheerio.

Alan: Bye.

Jackie: Bye.

I don't believe in the tooth fairy but I will definitely continue to believe in and canvas for world peace.

A few conundrums for Geckos, since you are keen to differentiate between those who chose to join the armed forces and those who 'band together' in times of attack.
In WW2 my MIL's twin sister chose to join up. MIL waited until she was conscripted and couldn't avoid it. Twin sister was never in active fighting, MIL was on anti aircraft guns. Which was worse, choosing to join and not being called to use guns, or being forced to join and use guns?
My father joined RAF because he wanted to fly. He couldn't pass the eye sight test so he was on the ground and not called to kill anyone. Is he a better person because he wasn't in a killer machine or a worse person because it had been his intention?
My mother couldn't join up because she was in a reserved occupation, does this make her a better person? Does it mean we can't remember people like her who died?
How do you differentiate between all those people who died in conflict? How do we even know their motivations? Who judges?

Well now that I have qualified it as Govt. or an individual premier.

How does the UN diplomatically enforce the 'appropriate punishment'?

well... diplomatically of course!

WW11 was different, it was necessary to stop ongoing invasion on Europe and inevitably the invasion of Britain. There was a real threat.

As I've already said, I would be far happier if remembrance day was about those who fell in that war and previous and we had another day/charity/event to mark the recent conflicts.

Now you can answer this

If its not political, why do we not celebrate fallen policemen, firefighters and paramedics who have died 'on duty' why is it Just soldiers?

You are thick skulled OP that's for sure.
Over and out

We do. Check out the various commemorative statues and monuments to them. I'm not going to bother posting links OP. Educate yourself by finding them yourself.

well... diplomatically of course!

You mean "ask them nicely"?

Oh and OP, if you are only prepared to engage in 'eloquent' arguments and those devoid of perceived and actual insults then you are going into the wrong profession.

Geckos I could tell you why DS1 wants to join the Army, but he has asked me not to post his reasons on here, so I shall respect that. I can say, however, it is not because he thinks he's an Action man and wants to go around killing people in a big tank!

DH joined the RAF because he wanted to work on aeroplanes. When he joined the Falklands were over and the first Iraq war had not started. I don't think he thought that there would be a war. He has told me he would be prepared to die for his country, however I have never, ever heard him say he would kill for his country. The chances of him killing anyone is so, so slim it is almost non existent.

I think we should respect and remember every single person who has given their life in the line of duty, but the 11/11 is about remembering people who have died in conflict. If you want to remember the emergency services who have died doing their duty, there are 364 other days of the year to do that.

I will say one thing to you though. We live very, very rurally so ambulances take a long time to get to people sometimes. The volunteer doctor who runs the first response car is an Army doctor, two of the volunteers who go with him are servicemen, one of them being DH. You want to be very careful about who you respect and bad mouth because you honestly don't know who you are meeting in your every day walk of life!

OP you know just shouting "We do it diplomatically!" repeatedly is not actually answering the question? How do you think the UN should enforce things diplomatically? If you can't think of a way then unfortunately your whole argument is flawed.

FWIW I agree with some of what you've said, the arms trade should be better regulated and restricted, but it's besides the point as it has nothing to do with the soliders on the ground.

I didn't shout anything.

I also didnt say it diplomatically.

There are a lot of people getting very hot under the collar here (at the mere mention of a peaceful world) but I am not one of them.

I would say that remembrance sunday is for those who died in the WW's, that there are 364 days to remember the rest of the armed forces who make a career out of killing and who sometimes die in the process.

Sorry - I also didnt say it repeatedly! Sorry wrong word!

OP, maybe do some research into the League of Nations that was set up after the first world war. It's primary aim was to prevent further wars. It tried to do so diplomatically, and as such had no real power. The failure of the League of Nations is often listed as one of the causes of WW2 (Obviously I've simplified things here). I'd look into this before suggesting the UN should change the way they operate.

I think remembrance day should be about all people who died in the wars btw, not just the soldiers.

Another thing that is muddied by making it about modern conflict.

Geckos Please tell me how DH, who has never, ever fired a gun has made a career out of killing people?

Who's hot under the collar? I for one am finding the OP's contributions to this thread highly entertaining - it's kept me going through sorting out all the laundry and clearing out the kitchen larder!

I'm about to start on the bedrooms now, so keep 'em coming, gecko.

We not only do that OP but a wreath is laid at the Cenotaph on behalf of members of London Transport, who were one of the civilian groups conscripted into what was a dangerous job.

Of course, other conscripted jobs were dangerous too. I'm just not aware of their wreaths but they might have them.

There's also a statue in Whitehall to the female conscripts who worked on the Home Front.

There's even one in Park Lane commemorating animals. I do feel a bit queasy at that one because of its slogan which is something like: 'They had no choice'.

Conscripted humans didn't have a choice either and what's worse, they knew what was coming, where at least the animals didn't. But hey ho. I'm not going to get angry.

If you were a regular serviceman you wouldn't have had a choice either, of course.

You said it at least twice, OP

"we need a diplomatic way of dealing with those people"

You were then asked exactly how we would deal with those people and you replied:

"diplomatically of course!"

Which isn't really answering the question at all.

As has been pointed out to you many, many times on this thread, the Armed Forces don't "make a career out of killing". A great number of the forces go through their entire career and never engage in active combat (medics, mechanics, engineers etc). Some are never even deployed to war zones. Those that are, in the case of ground troops in Afghanistan at least, are only allowed to fire back. If they kill at all they do so in self defense. And that makes up a tiny portion of their jobs. It is not what they "make their career out of".

I definitely agree the UN has failed. I dont see how it can stop military 'involvement' in Syria whilst being fine with the arms trading that is going on.

I dont know why our country sends 'aid' of weapons to various countries but not things like grain and medical supplies.

Its all messed up, the 'aid' we send is a massive problem.