Why I No Longer Feel Comfortable Wearing a Poppy

[Geckos48]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/madeleine-fry/poppy-day_b_4169581.html

very eloquently put. Exactly how I feel about the whole debacle.

November 11th should be for those who selflessly gave their lives in the World Wars, not those who chose to fight dubious campaigns abroad.

Personally I would much rather have our armed services ready to deal with it than have my inexperienced sons conscripted to 'band together to sort it out', apart from the fact that modern warfare is far too sophisticated for them to be much use.

Do you honestly think that the armed forces don't have anything to do with anti-terrorism measures in this country. I think you would find that the special forces (who of course are active service men) have a great deal to do with it.

Gecko my husband is in the Falklands right now, along with quite a few other service personnel protecting those Falkland Islanders. It is the fourth time he has been there. They are British.

The Service personnel in Afghanistan are trying to protect the world from the Taliban, they are trying to make it better for the Afghans.

The Navy go on board ships and seize billions of pounds worth of drugs to protect us all from the people who deal these drugs.

It isn't all about war and weapons and us! It is such a bigger picture. What a shame you can not see that.

I haven't lectured about Marx, I have suggested people read the Communist Manifesto in answer to a question 'how could the world be peaceful'

because it answers that question very well.

If you dont like the thread, just leave.

There is of course then the argument that doing nothing (i.e. not invading) is as bad as the alternative. You only have to look at the horrors happening in Syria.

I do agree about the Navy who protect our boarders fanastically.

i do not agree about the home-made terrorists though, they are dealt with by the Home Office and by trained Police Officers. Not the Army.

There is lots you can do besides invading

Send aid, stop supplying arms, trade embargo's, education, sort out world trade.

There is lots between 'do nothing' and 'invasion'

My DH is one of those who has never fired a gun at anyone (he was a good shot on the ranges). He went into an Iraqi village to fix their water pump to supply clean, safe water for everyone. But of course he's a murderous thug by definition.

He now works at sea, helping to ensure the safety of shipping around the UK coast, and wants us to become a foster carers. I hope our social worker recoils in horror at such an intrinsically thuggish dimwit wanting to continue his life-long desire to follow his principles.

My personal plans to join the army were curtailed by meeting DH. Of course I am also a violent nasty person and not a nurse.

I agree with everything LtDallas and I have all of JD Robbs books hidden away says, as I always do.

"Everyone would band together and sort it!"

Can you maintain a Typhoon jet! or a Chinook? No! Just as well people like DH and his colleagues can!

Can you fly one? What was that? You can't, nor me, just as well my mate's DH can!

Can you do LtEve's job? I can't, but I am bloody glad she and her colleagues can and are experienced enough to do it properly, well, efficiently and safely, rather than some buffoon thinking they know what's best banding together to sort it!

FFS, I've heard it all now!

If we were, I imagine everyone would band together and sort it out, like we did the last time.

So, to briefly recap, because my head is beginning to hurt too.

1.It is not OK to have armed forces ready to defend our country or peace keep anywhere against some of the nasty dictators that the world produces.

1. It is OK if we are in danger of being bombed to get all our inexperienced youth to fight it?
2. If a civilian population elsewhere is getting slaughtered we just let it happen because our population and culture and buildings are doing fine, thank you very much.

Or have I misunderstood something?

Who makes these advanced weapons that need specially trained personnel?

Oh that would be us wouldnt it... you are missing the point.

I would rather go to prison, than join the army. Can I give aid in the form of volunteering, working with people? Yes and I have.

Send aid, stop supplying arms, trade embargo's, education, sort out world trade.

A fat lot of good with the wrong people in charge! How do you educate girls when they are not allowed to go to school?

I would agree that having an army ready to defend us if needed is important

I disagree with what our army does now (which is not that)

Hope that clears things up.

The reason we were able to deal with the potential threat of invasion by Germany between 1939 and 1945 is because we already had a standing army, navy and air force which we could add to. Those that joined in war time did actually have to spend time training incredibly, you can't just "band together and sort it out" (whatever that actually means) without a bit of preparation... For starters, no forces means no equipment - how does a country suddenly arm itself with tanks, other vehicles, weapons, planes, ships, aircraft carriers, ammo plus almost countless other things, not to mention the enormous infrastructure needed to house and train servicemen? The idea of people clubbing together and "sorting it out" is totally laughable and just shows how basic your arguments are.

War does not improve human rights, economic stability does. War absolutely destroys economic stability so it does NOT improve human rights.

Luckily Gecko, you will never be asked to join the army, precisely because we have one!

I'm all for preparation, I am not for waging war on countries who have not done anything to harm us (are people finding it hard to read what I am writing)

How on earth do you get economic stability in countries that slaughter their own population?

There is no point in us not having these weapons Gecko when the rest of the world do. It would make us a sitting target!

What do you suggest? Shall we just pop over with a pot of tea and a box of French Fancies and have a nice little tea party?

This is life not a Disney movie!

I was under the impression that wars were fought to get people their human rights if they can't get them the peaceful way.

So are you saying people in other countries should be allowed to kill and maim the fuck out of each other and we should turn the other cheek because it doesn't affect us?

Really?

The same way we did!

We dont have sparkly clean human rights records, we grew to a democratic and fair society, having it thrust upon us would not have worked.

Did you know that more girls were educated under Saddams rule than ever had been before?

Did you know that Gaddafi created enormous under earth water systems which gave fresh water to every part of Libya?

Again, war does not bring economic stability to anyone but us, because they keep the oil prices down and a large portion of the world poor and fucked.

We make the guns! And sell them to people!

Do you think the people of Afghanistan have the means of making the weapons that they use to shoot our soldiers?

Bigger picture guys!

I do struggle to make the connection between you not agreeing with the way our POLITICIANS undertake foreign policy (hence deciding to invade) and the brave soldiers simply doing their jobs (i'm an army brat and trust me for many of these men it literally is a choice between prison and the army.)

The poppy (which was what this thread was about.... I think) is a sign of gratitude to those who gave the ultimate sacrifice in the service of their country. Why does it matter the circumstances which led to that? It wasn't their choice. If every soldier refused to fight in any war they weren't comfortable with then we simply wouldn't have an armed forces.

Dictators in other countries would have a lot harder a time 'killing and maiming' people if we stopped selling and making the weapons they use to do it.

Have a bit of a look at where Assad got his Sarin gas from...