Why I No Longer Feel Comfortable Wearing a Poppy

[Geckos48]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/madeleine-fry/poppy-day_b_4169581.html

very eloquently put. Exactly how I feel about the whole debacle.

November 11th should be for those who selflessly gave their lives in the World Wars, not those who chose to fight dubious campaigns abroad.

"I am against war, those who fight it and those who create it."

If you'd said that from the beginning I'm sure many people (myself included) would disagree but there probably wouldn't have been much of a debate. What you said at the start was

"I am against war, those who fight it and those who create it, except in the case of the World Wars" then spent 23 pages ignoring everyone who pointed out that the soldiers of the WWs did have information available to them, that a lot of them did have a choice and were not conscripted, and that the reasons they joined were, in most cases, the same as the reasons people join up today.

I suppose there is a difference between disrespecting someone and just not respecting them.

I am of the latter. I do not blindly respect people who have been in the military. I do not consider the dead to be something to be glorified, I think doing so is all a bit 'Roman' if I am honest.

I agree not holding someone in high regard is not the same as disrespecting.

Agreed MrsGSR

Well you don't take notice of anyone else on the threads you create, gecko. Unless they happen to say something you want to hear.

And as for "I am sure they don't require your tongue up their arses to carry on!" I think that tells us more than we need or want to know about you!

As you were...

I wear my poppy with pride every year.

I don't see really see the OPs point here.

Poppies are about remembering those who have lost their lives, families who have lost loved ones

"Without servicemen there would be no wars"

Hahahaha. This is brilliant in its unparalleled simplicity (and lack of grounding in any kind of reality)

I wear my poppy every year.

I don't really see the OPs point here.

Poppies and rememberance day (the clue is in the name) are about remembering those who have died and sacrificed, and families who have lost loved ones and suffered from the repercussions of war. it has nothing to do with supporting what happens in Iraq.

Basically i agree with everything that LtAllHallows has said but she has articulated her point alot better than i can.

I think it is so disrespectful to label Rememberance day "a debacle".

I know a number of soldiers who have never deployed. They are in trades where their skills are better utilised back here. I know 100s of soldiers who have never had to fire a shot in anger or defence, despite deploying to operational zones.

I know soldiers that have saved lives of civilians in peacetime, civilians in conflict, fellow soldiers and soldiers of 'the enemy'.

I have known heroes who would be mortified to know that is how I see them.

I know men (and one woman) who have killed. I have gone to the funerals of 7 friends killed in combat and one killed by a drink driver back home.

Each and every one of us are humans, soldiers, people. Husbands, wives, sons and daughters. I know musicians, historians, mathematicians, science geeks, singers, bikers, footballers. People that build things, people that grow things, people that blow stuff up! Black, white, gay, straight. They are all individuals. Soldiers (sailors, airmen) are NOT all that they are.

I respect all people. Every one of us has at least one good point, no matter how hard you have to look for it.

Having 'no respect' for someone simply for their job, simply for one facet of their lives that doesn't define them, that doesn't make them, that isn't ALL they are is short sighted, intolerant and divisive (and actually, the cause of most conflicts)

Being brought up in Northern Ireland in the 70s can make you lose respect for a lot of things.

I wish we had a 'like' button for LtAllHallowsEves post of 16:50.

Agreed IamInvisable

I think she's fab!

Without servicemen, there would be no wars.

How naive can you get? That one takes the

I would wear a white poppy.My grandad who was a stretcher bearer in 2nd world war would have a white one too.Do not agree with calling everyone in armed forces heroes.

LtAllHallowsEves is an example of why I think that we ought to have a 'like' button,there are times when you just want to applaud sound, logical common sense.

I, for one, am eternally grateful for anyone who will place their life at risk for the protection of another.

The soldiers have a hard time of it being away from their families and the stress of deployment takes its toll on everyone involved. Thats before anyone is maimed or killed.

The objection to fighting of certain wars is debatable, but remembrance of those who have given the ultimate sacrifice for total strangers is non-negotiable to me.

for LtEve

If my father - volunteered in WWII (aged 18), landed at Normandy, battled across Northern Europe in his tank, was among those who liberated Belsen Concentration camp, continued in service (fought in Korea in the '50, Aden in the '60s) - if he were still here, he'd be saluting her and giving her too.

I'll be wearing my red poppy.

WithRedWine

Bless you Gecko, you've really held your own amongst all the emotive tub-thumping.

The only one emotively tub-thumping around here has been Gecko. She has offered no reason behind her thought process and her logical fallacies are big enough to drive a bus through.

Geckos48

I think that we had an opportunity, after the second world war to make a peaceful world and we chose war instead. We chose it because it made us money and power.

I think that is a travesty and not what people fought for.

Could you detail under exactly what circumstances there was an opportunity to 'make a peaceful world'? Which countries and governments sought such a thing? Which political movements sought it?

In your own time.

And how could it have been achieved?

I suggest everyone reads 'the communist manifesto' by Karl Marx, it says more than i could about reaching a peaceful equilibrium.

War is unnecessary and destructive. I don't claim to know all the answers but I know that is a fact.

Lolololololololololol

Thanks!

Thats quite alright! :)

Geckos48

I suggest everyone reads 'the communist manifesto' by Karl Marx, it says more than i could about reaching a peaceful equilibrium.

Oh my paws and whiskers.

Have you read it? And how do you square what you have read with what you know of the brutality of communist states? 65 million dead in Communist China thanks to Marx, 20 million dead in Soviet Russia, 2 million dead in Cambodia, 1 million in Vietnam.

I suppose that once every single human being has been killed, that's a form of peaceful equilibrium.

War is unnecessary and destructive. I don't claim to know all the answers but I know that is a fact.

But you've already stated that WW2 was necessary and you accept it as a just war. Presumably that 'fact' is now a fact although it wasn't before?

Have you read it?

'Communist' China has nothing to do with Marx.