Why I No Longer Feel Comfortable Wearing a Poppy

[Geckos48]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/madeleine-fry/poppy-day_b_4169581.html

very eloquently put. Exactly how I feel about the whole debacle.

November 11th should be for those who selflessly gave their lives in the World Wars, not those who chose to fight dubious campaigns abroad.

But that's just it Kim. We don't know yet.
The OP is perceiving the WWs through the way history has judged them.

It could be that Assad is conducting atrocities in Syria now on a par with the holocaust, and that the UN will be judged for NOT intervening. But we can't know yet.
The conflicts in the Middle East can't be judged on the same level as a war conducted 100years ago, because we don't know how it will pan out yet.

"I disagree, the soldiers in WW1 had no way of knowing that they were not fighting for freedom."

I suggest you read Norman Angell's letter that was published in The Times newspaper 1 Aug. 1914. There were many people who objected to British involvement in WW1 on this basis and who were very vocal and public about it. The information was out there.

"Really? Well I'm against guns, but pro-bullets. Those defenceless lumps of metal, fired into peoples chests against their will. What choice did they have, eh?"

That would almost be comparable if it wasn't for the fact that the sole purpose of bullets are to be fired from guns. As it has been pointed out many times on this thread, to apparently deaf ears, soldiers do much more than just fight.

Thank you all, very much appreciated

Satin, funnily enough I think it's my Mil training that gives me patience. It's harder online because you can't see people's eyes, or how animated they are (and its very easy just to shout WANKER! from behind a screen ) but peacekeeping and stabilisation needs calm explanation and understanding. There's no point in shouting WANKER! (even when you really really want to) because that might get you (or your mate) a bullet to the forehead.

I disagree we have 'fixed' things in Iraq, I really do.

I dont think any amount of help at home will change the way I feel about people who were paid to go into that conflict and ruin lives.

I will post this and not look at this thread again as it is to close to home but will say two things.

I wear my poppy with pride.

OP you may want to remember servicemen do not decide to deploy GOVERNMENTS do.

Without servicemen, there would be no wars.

I do not support wars
I do not support the governments that create them
I do not support the paid people who go into them.

I do not support them At All.

Sometimes posters truly believe that they know something about a subject, yet have no idea how their every post only serves to demonstrate their ignorance.

Kim at the moment our Army (I am not sure about the other armed forces) is pretty small compared to the size of our country. Someone else mentioned that Germany were punished after WW1 which led to WW2. One of their punishments laid out in the treaty of Versailles was that the full time Army couldn't be more than 100,000 soldiers. Our full time Army is currently quite a bit smaller than this but our population is about the same as that of Germany in 1919.

clam for someone who has added nothing to this discussion but nasty thinly veiled insults, you really ought to take your own advice...

I know that war is SHIT for the people who have to live through it.

I know that our military does not protect people from wars, it creates them, both with the arms trade and our 'gung-ho' approach to 'freeing' people

I know that when it comes down to it, people would not want war on this soil, even if human rights issues existed.

I know that there is a lot of hypocrisy and a lot of arrogance.

Oh for crying out loud. Do not support govts that create them?

You don't vote? Or pay taxes?

Stop being so naive

Gecko I don't think anyone said we 'fixed' things in Iraq?

"Without servicemen, there would be no wars."

Without servicemen the government would still go to war but would just enforce conscription again.

I fully acknowledge that there are plenty of posters on here who know much more about the details of the issues here than I do. They're all doing a pretty sterling job in arguing their points against you.

I think if that were the case MrsG people would be a lot more vocal about not going to war, people would be much less likely to vote in people who wanted war and those who did go to war would be treated better.

I think that without a force that we have to find something to do with, we would be much more selective about the involvement we chose to have in military operations around the world.

Right so given you have nothing related to say, why on earth do you think I would take notice of you clam?

If you are happy for others to 'get on with it' then let them. I am sure they don't require your tongue up their arses to carry on!

I know people disagree with me about war, it doesnt come as a surprise. I am surprised people think we did a 'good think' for Iraq or that we are doing a 'good thing' for Afghanistan and I am absolutely FLABBERGASTED that anyone thinks either of those things are done for our 'freedom of speech'

but I know people will disagree with me. I dont care, I am against war, those who fight it and those who create it.

I am more comfortable with not celebrating remembrance now, because of this thread and I know about the white poppy appeal which is great.

We don't need to 'find something to do' with the forces though. As I pointed out there are many in the forces who have never been on an operational tour. Even my DH, who has done 3 tours which is a lot more than most of his peers, has only spent 10% of his career on tour. They have many jobs that have nothing to do with occupying other countries. The government deploys troops for many reasons, political, economic... I doubt it's ever been because the soldiers are 'a bit bored'

I have read nothing on this thread that has made me change my mind about how I wear my poppy, my Father was called up in WWII, he didn't volunteer but he always said that the epitome of bravery post war was those men and women who joined up and continued to serve without having to be conscripted.

He had enormous respect for the men and women of our current serving forces and I wear my poppy out of honour to him and to all those who serve past and present.

I work with many ex service men and women who have seen active service and they are some of the most peaceable people I have ever met but I know that they can and will be standing in front of me when the shit hits the fan but will always aim to defuse a situation rather than shout the odds with the same patience and dignity that LtEve shows.

If we didn't have an Armed Forces we would be so, so vulnerable. Do you think if we gave ours up everyone else would too? All the extremists and terrorist groups would stop what they are doing? Of course they wouldn't!

We don't live in a cartoon world where bluebirds sing and rabbits runaround doing all the hardwork you know!

I think that we had an opportunity, after the second world war to make a peaceful world and we chose war instead. We chose it because it made us money and power.

I think that is a travesty and not what people fought for.

I was brought up in Northern Ireland and to not wear one was seen as outrageous even though as a child I noticed some of those ramming them down our throats were questionable people .This made me think when I am older and can CHOOSE I will never wear one and I haven't. I don't feel the need to wear my feelings about anything on my coat for all to see.

I should not disrespect? I wouldnt disrespect, in that I wouldn't make a scene at a military demonstration, or not help someone because they were military, or treat people different because they were military.

But I will have a clear opinion about the military and I will share it as I see fit.

I do not consider that disrespectful (though I am sure others disagree)

Just like I would not treat an investment banker differently than any other person whilst still retaining strong opinions about how they choose to live their lives.