Why I No Longer Feel Comfortable Wearing a Poppy

[Geckos48]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/madeleine-fry/poppy-day_b_4169581.html

very eloquently put. Exactly how I feel about the whole debacle.

November 11th should be for those who selflessly gave their lives in the World Wars, not those who chose to fight dubious campaigns abroad.

"We are, really quite dreadful people."

You speak for yourself. And maybe get your own house in order before criticising the rest of us.

Anyone else seeing the irony in gecko (as that's what she's currently posting as) preaching to the rest of us about pacifism, when every sentence she types is dripping with aggression?

Andcake British soldiers in WW1 were around 51% conscripts and 49% volunteers, conscription was introduced much earlier in WW2 but there were still many volunteers.

kim147 you post beautifully.

You can be absolutely pro soldiers and anti war. Support the soldiers, tackle the politicians, through engaging with the political process.

Which incidentally you can only do because we have an army that fought wars to do so (WW1 and WW2), and that you cannot do in most of the countries you have mentioned because of the oppressive regimes there.

I would rather have freedom (yes that includes freedom to muck up) than cultural buildings

PS will be wearing my poppy with pride

And OP, you can keep talking about how you know better than any of us how we are perceived by those in the East and how badly we've left countries but the fact that, as far as I can see, you're ignoring TwitTwoo's testimony suggests you only see/hear what you want to. I've read reports from lots of different sources in both Iraq and Afghan that agree with TwitTwoo

I refuse to wear a poppy. I support the original idea (remembering the fallen of WW1 and WW2) and this is still what November 11th is about in the country I'm originally from (Belgium). A LOT of people died during those wars who didn't choose to go into the army as a career. And especially in Belgium there wasn't really a choice - you either fought against the Nazi's or you had to become one of them. There is also a lot of gratitude towards British and American soldiers of those days as people feel they really did rescue them.

However, I completely disagree with funds of the charity nowadays being used for disabled ex-army soldiers from the recent wars. First of all, it's a career choice. The employer (ie. the government) needs to support those who have had injuries (whether physical or mental) during their "work time". If anything people should complain that the government doesn't provide this (or not enough in any case) rather than the government pushing citizens to support a CHARITY to carry out its duties. This would not be accepted from any private company yet the UK government gets away with it.

Secondly I completely disagree with the more recent wars and how the UK seems to think they can go somewhere and decide how it will be done- however that's a personal opinion.

"Perhaps you have not been to a war-torn country and perhaps you have not seen what people have to deal with long-term when their infrastructure is destroyed?"

I think LtAllHallowsEve described it from first-hand experience very eloquently, actually.

You did say it Gecko, you know full well you did. You know full well you tarred every single person in the Armed Forces with the same brush. I even asked you if your Dad knew that was how you saw men in the RAF! You said he knew your feelings!

You are the one spouting nonsense, not me and you know it!

And twittwoo.

"The world could get rid of conflict if we all stood together. Boycotts, trade, fairer economies etc. More tolerance. But all too often, it's war that is the first port of call. "

We can't even get rid of conflict on mumsnet not sure how the world would fair. There are so many different and conflicting motivations and beliefs.

Nor do I actually think we should.

For there to be no conflict everyone needs to agree over everything. Whose opinion wins out. there can only be no conflict if the leaders are inherently oppressive of everyone who disagrees.

Which is exactly why we should be wearing a poppy

If people didn't join up as a career choice then we will be fucked if there is another war.
I would prefer to have forces ready and trained in combat rather than conscription because we did away with all our forces personnel.

cocole - yes it's a good thing there are people going into the army, however their employer (the government) has IMO no excuse for not supporting them/their family in case they get injured or worse. They should not have to rely on a charity for that. That's my main issue with the poppy appeal.

I can only compare to where I'm from - Belgium has an army too and sends out people to wars. However when they get injured the STATE supports them. They don't need a charity for that. I makes me really angry and upset that the UK government doesn't provide this.

Its not just "the Army"! The Armed Forces consist of the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force as well, you know!

Geckos48

As I said, only on the internet is someone considered an 'arsehole' for not believing in war.

No, you're considered an arsehole because you dissemble, you smear, you change your viewpoint, you make wild and lurid claims and when they're pulverised by better people who actually know something, you gallivant off on a tangent.

Fortunately in the rest of life, people are quite easy about pacifists.

It's not pacifists we have a problem with. It's ignorance.

I wonder if geckos expresses herself in this way "in the rest of life." And, if so, how she gets along with people.

My view point has never changed.

The armed forces is a terror institution which creates terrible situations for many, many countries.

Those who sign up to that, sign up to what it stands for.

Our country would not be improved by bombs, NOBODY's country is improved by bombs.

I mean that as a whole, as a Sociological and Economic view-point. not from the mouth of one person.

I am not aggressive. If you read it that way it is not because of me.

Clam - whilst I think that stays on the right side of personal attack it's about as close as it comes.

Yup. But the OP knows all about personal attacks.