Girls been forced to sit at the back of the class

[Wannabestepfordwife]

Apologies that I can't link but has anyone else seen recent stories on the Al-Madinah school in derby.

Not only are female staff required to wear a headscarf regardless of religion and having their contracts changed to reflect this.

But female students are being forced to sit at the back of the class and have to give up their place in the dinner queue for male pupils.

Now I'm not what you would call an active feminist but I'm absolutely disgusted by this. A free and equal education for everyone regardless of sex, creed, race is one of the best things about this country IMO.

Does anyone know what powers the government have over free schools or can they basically do what they want?

I guess some parents at the school must be unhappy.

However, it would be as much of a concern if parents were happy with girls being forced to sit at the back etc. Probably worse.

If parents wanted their children to be segregated boy/girl then surely there are plenty of single sex schools out there?

I'm really interested by what you say blueberryupsidedown about the difference between "ordinary" and "free" faith schools, because I think I have the same gut feeling. In faith schools in general, they do have to learn about other faiths, and you feel that there aren't going to be any extremist practices being taught. For instance, my understanding is that they wouldn't be able to teach creationism (not that CorE or Catholics believe in that). I don't think a Catholic school would be allowed to teach that homosexuality is wrong, not that I've ever met an ordinary Catholic or Catholic school teacher who believes that.

A "free" school seems to me as though they are planning to go outside of ordinary restraints and teach whatever they like, however bizarre by the standards of most people.

Also from what you say about the Sikh school, it sounds as though parents may be given no choice but to accept a "free" school in the area?

It could happen technically that if your daughter happened to live closest to the school and was forcibly sent there because there were no places at any other schools.

I hope it happens to one of Michael Gove's offspring. Things would soon change.

It is harder to change things if you are arguing on several fronts at once, and it's why using the laws and equality legislation is essential. And why no educational establishment; free, faith, private or state should be exempt

Yes - ITA. Though the DofE do need to investigate all the various issues.

If any parents are happy with their daughters being treated as second class citizens it's even MORE important that state education shows this kids they have equal rights in UK law and UK culture.

these kids, obv.

These kids will soon be adults in our society, and will be having kids of their own. They are being taught values which are in direct conflict with our society's values of equality.

I have nothing against faith schools per se I mean I don't think anyone has been scared or affected for the rest of their lives by taking part in the harvest festival or Singing Christmas songs.

However I do have an issue with people like this and the reg vardy schools that wanted to teach creationism. Education shouldn't be a way for fundamentalists to push their warped interpretation of a faith on to the young especially to the detriment of some students

The creationism problem has been recognised and steps taken to address it - quite a good discussion here - and guess what, the number of applications from creationist groups has since fallen.

So that's good.

Thanks for the link Errol, I didn't know about that but am encouraged.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-24360100

Now we will have to wait for the inspection to be published, and find out what the H&S issue was, and if any of the allegations were true.

The h&s story doesn't wash with me for a second

I've just realised how inappropriate your name is for someone who is objecting to women and girls being seen as second class citizens.

Local newspaper link. Apparently this closure happened part way into a two-day inspection (according to school's own website scheduled for 1st and 2nd oct) so OFSTED haven't even been able to complete a full inspection. Although schools may not be given much notice of an inspection, this one surely must have known one would be coming so you'd have thought they'd have made damn sure there weren't any H&S issues. Well, you'd have hoped that was a given in any school regardless of imminent inspection - are there many cases of normal LEA schools having to abruptly close for this reason?

Because the inspections are such short notice, it's very hard to make a convincing show now, and to change things for the duration of the inspection. The cracks show, and the children get confused that things have changed and say so when asked.

I know a nusery that shut dow completely unexpectedly from one day to the next because of dodgy wiring, I wouldn't rule it out.

If they had actually paid any attention at all to the free school experiment in Sweden, they would have known that this has happened several times there. The free school concept attracts underqualified religious zealots.

So far, afaik, all the Swedish cases have been to do with Muslim schools, but I imagine it could equally well happen with other religions. There are Christian sects who could well do something similar if we let them get away with it.

I know cory, it's bizarre that the government has this 'anything goes' attitude to children's educational setting. I guess that's what happens when you apply market forces to schools.

It isn't unknown for a school to shut down before an Ofsted inspection is completed. I know of one that was closed down because it wasn't considered that staff or pupils were safe there. Ofsted don't walk away in those circumstances, they will be very involved.
All schools need to be Ofsted-ready because they only get half a day's notice of inspection (Ofsted have to ring by 1.30 pm on the day before). Having said that, it is possible to predict when the next visit is due depending on the outcome of the last inspection.
By the way, this is not a situation where lies could be told. So the H+S safety "story" definitely does "wash". There will definitely have been a serious H+S issue found for the school to close like this. That's not to say more won't come to light, but you can be certain that this aspect is true. If there was another reason for the close-down it would have been stated, Ofsted have no interest in cover-ups.

There was another Muslim free school case where there were allegations of intimidation and extremism. That one was cancelled very late after it had been approved but just before the funding agreement was signed.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10025584/Muslim-free-school-plans-on-hold-over-extremism-claims.html

Sound like this school got through that approval process and Ofsted has to pick up the pieces, but it does beg the question: how rigorous is the approval process?

There's been a follow up story in the mail and one mother has been quoted as saying she thinks its brilliant the girls are separated- its just so sad

The parents sent their children there because they wanted them to be treated in this way.

Maybe they need a crystal ball in the approval process?

It does worry me that some twat (probably several) at the Department of Education saw this application and approved it. It suggests that the process for allowing free schools to be built isn't as rigorous as it might be. This is being funded by public money, after all, and so should be scrutinised very closely - preferably before it gets set up with all its ridiculous rules rather than after.

Were all its rules defined at that stage though? Presumably a Free school can be set up but then introduce changes at the whim of the governing body?

The prevailing point - that girls should not be treated as inferior to boys - is one that i support 100%, however I am disappointed with the level of ignorance shown by some posters and the eagerness with which they are happy to attack a whole religion.

1. Please learn to separate cultural ignorance and stupidity from Islam. Yes there is a huge problem CULTURALLY of female inequality. However I would like to point out that actually islam was the first establishment to support womens rights - give them rights to work, to earn and keep their own money, to divorce their husbands, to have the right to demand that their husbands support them financially, the right to inherit money. All this occurring centuries ago when women in the west had zero rights and in fact were being debated in parliament as to whether they even had souls like men (they did. They won by one vote. Yippee). The fact that women are sometimes not treated equally in today's society is a reflection of misogynistic culture (anyone heard about the crap going on against women in India??) not a misogynisitc religion.

1. Those of you who look down from on high at the 'poor muslim women' or who make outrageous statement about how 'extremism spreads rapidly in heavily muslim populated areas and I imagine they start young' or ignorant rants about how awful islam is - here is an idea: TRY NOT TO GET ALL YOUR 'FACTS' ABOUT AN ENTIRE RELIGION CONSISTING OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE OF EVERY RACE ACROSS EVERY CONTINENT FROM NEWSPAPER ARTICLES THAT OBVIOUSLY ARE GOING TO PICK SENSATIONAL STORIES TO SELL. Try to use your brain and actually do some research or talk to the poor muslim women you feel so sorry for. This kind of talk is abhorrent and is the same kind of deep-rooted insecurity that leads to people of ethnic minorities being attacked for being 'different'

1. Even those of you who believe you are not being ignorant - saying things like 'so sad' in response to the fact that a muslim mother is happy for boys and girls to be segregated is just an example of a total lack of cultural sensitivity. It is ok for boys and girls to be segregated - even if that is not how it happens in your way of life. There are plenty of 'English' schools that segregate boys and girls - I went to a CofE school that separated boys and girls. And you know what? It was great and not at all sad and we are not somehow warped as a result of it. Oh and there weren't any comments about how sad it was for us to be separated. Girls jn fact do much better when they are segregated - that is a well established and researched fact. Gender inequality = bad, segregation however is NOT gender inequality. Try to open your eyes to the idea that some people do it differently.

1. There is a reason why islam is the fasted spreading religion in the world. It is not extremism or brainwashing or whatever other sensational word people want to use. It is because when you look at it with an open mind it actually is pretty damn good. Oh, and guess what section of society are the biggest number of converts to islam? Western white women.

By all means have a debate about gender inequality. But islamophobia is not on.

kittenmummy I agree with you I am ignorant about a lot of things and I don't have an issue with seperate education for girls and boys like seperate schools or even the same education being given in seperate classrooms but girls being forced to the back of the class isn't equality to me