Girls been forced to sit at the back of the class

[Wannabestepfordwife]

Apologies that I can't link but has anyone else seen recent stories on the Al-Madinah school in derby.

Not only are female staff required to wear a headscarf regardless of religion and having their contracts changed to reflect this.

But female students are being forced to sit at the back of the class and have to give up their place in the dinner queue for male pupils.

Now I'm not what you would call an active feminist but I'm absolutely disgusted by this. A free and equal education for everyone regardless of sex, creed, race is one of the best things about this country IMO.

Does anyone know what powers the government have over free schools or can they basically do what they want?

This isn't a problem with free schools, it's a problem with Islam and its incompatibility with western values of gender equality.

^ Point proven.

This sort of demonisation is all about sneering at people you feel superior to. It is absolutely not about helping Muslims, nor does it benefit Muslims in any way.

MrJP is absolutely correct. It's a shame that some are too blind to see it.

It's not demonisation and it's not sneering - it's a recognision of fact. Islam can keep saying that women are treated equally but the evidence does not bear this out.

I find the idea of a school in Britain that requires girls to sit at the back and requires non-Muslim staff to wear a headscarf is an utter abomination and should not be tolerated.

It isn't about helping Muslims, it's about enabling girls and women to gain equal access to education, and to know and believe themselves to be equal.
If that is what the school is doing, then they have absolutely nothing to worry about.

To be fair, we slate Catholicism when similar issues arise, such as their refusal to allow women bishops. They probably don't like it either. When we criticise misogyny, we don't care about helping the faith, we are attacking placid acceptance of bullshit.

Have skim read so may have missed this, but people wondering about discrimination - faith schools are exempt from certain parts of the Equality Act.

This particular school's approach makes me very uncomfortable.

Not usually gender though, it tends to be things like not being allowed to be a head or a deputy head of a catholic school if you aren't catholic.
So they can advertise and not get sued.

WetAugust - Evidence where? I work in a large hospital in a city with a large Muslim population, there are Muslim women working at all levels, included as consultants. Or are they not the right sort of Muslim women?

That's just one example, btw, I could give you many more. The lead prosecutor of the International Criminal Court is a Muslim women, did you know that? ( This is quite a good link, btw: www.wisemuslimwomen.org/muslimwomen/ )

The school is wrong. It is being dealt with. Why does any thing bad that a Muslim does have to be turned into an attack on Islam and all Muslims? What does that achieve? Would you feel comfortable doing that with any other minority group?

Dear Mr Gove

Following recent allegations in the press about School X, could you please assure us that no school subject to OFSTED regulation will ever be allowed to teach (implicitly or explicitly) that women are inferior to men.

Will you please assure us that no school will be permitted to compromise girls' freedom, equal status and ability to access the curriculum on the pretext of protecting their modesty, or protecting boys and male teachers from lustful thoughts.

Will you please assure us that regardless of religious or administrative status, no school will be permitted to teach our children a doctrine of racial or gender inferiority, or that dinosaurs and cavemen were the best of friends.

Yours sincerely

Lady IW

1Chocolate - but no one is placidly accepting anything. As Spork said, the school is being dealt with.

It is a problem with Free schools. Similar abuses could happen if an extreme fundamentalist Christian group managed to take one over.

It may also be worth noting that western values of gender equality are relatively recent, and weren't arrived at by bans and demonization, but by a steady process of legislation and adjustment of attitudes. The people perpetrating the inequalities weren't 'them' but 'us' - change comes from within. And it can and does happen within Islam too. The Muslim women I know seem to be on much the same page as the Christian women I know.

Gosh - don't be so hysterical.

And stop trying to close down debate by accusing people of attacking Islam when what they are doing is debating a subject.

Where I see injustice and discrimmination I speak out -m I don't defend it.

You need to acept the fact that other people are allowed to have views on matters - they may even differ to your views.

I don't think Gosh is being hysterical at all. She's adding her views to the debate, as indeed we're all entitled to, not shutting it down.

LadyI - please do send that letter!

Western values of gender equality are more theoretical than literal a lot of the time.

I am horrified to think that British girls are being treated like this in a UK state school. I hope the school is inspected thoroughly and they continue to monitor through unannounced spot checks.

Western values of gender equality are more theoretical than literal a lot of the time

Gradually going in the right direction though, and crucially they are enshrined in law, which applies to us all. The vital thing is that this school is brought to book and not allowed to discriminate against the girls and the women teachers. Frankly I'd hope that if the allegations are true someone gets prosecuted.

(not forgetting as a separate matter, the question of whether they are diverting too much time from normal education needs to be addressed.)

What is so concerning is that someone within this school thought it perfectly acceptable for girls to be treated in this way.

There should be an investigation into this matter with the aim of discovering who drew up this policy of girls sitting at the back.

The Head also has questions to answer.

The Head also has questions to answer. Absolutely.

That is disgusting

I am Muslim (although DD is half Jewish) and I find this abhorrent. DD is a girl- that means she belongs to one gender. That is all. It does NOT mean she is inferior or deserves to be treated like muck and should hold men superior to her People like this should not call themselves Muslim, they don't deserve it. And the headscarf/covering wearing is wtf too. Somehow, I have a feeling men didn't have the same rules... What you wear (as long as you wear something/there's nothing inappropriate depicted on them) should be your choice. And for the girls sitting at the back...education should be equal. No discrimination. No invasion of religion. Schools have a duty to their pupils, to not be prejudiced or discriminative (sadly, the girls going to this school have probably been 'brainwashed' to believe they are inferior) and I believe secular education is the way forward.

Wet August - tone arguments do not wash with me.

The school has serious questions to answer and should not be allowed to continue as it is.

The issue of Free schools and the leeway they are permitted needs to be explored.

Stating ^ that is completely different from baldly stating that Islam is the problem/We should have veil bans/Muslim values are incompatible with Western society.

I find all those statements to be far more hysterical and unhelpful then anything I have said.

GoshAnneGorilla to get to the consensus we want, i.e. all girls to be educated and treated with the same standards as boys

Apologies everyone, bloody tumbletap issues.

GoshAnneGorilla to get to the consensus we want, i.e. all girls to be educated and treated the same as boys we will need to confront head on the attitude within parts of Islam that see girls and women as second class citizens. We can choose to confront this issue or shy away from it but we cannot get to any consensus unless we tackle this. We face the choice that female emancipation trumps religion, or that religion trumps female emancipation. That is all there is to the issue.

In a nutshell, one can confront misogyny and be accused of racism, or you can ignore the problem and condone sexism.

Women in the UK didn't gain equal rights through 'a steady process of legislation and adjustment of attitudes'. Our mothers and grandmothers and great-grandmothers fought for equality. For the right to vote, for equal pay, for access to healthcare and contraception, for rape to be made illegal within marriage... people protested, campaigned, petitioned, took direct action - including violent direct action - went on hunger strike..

The Ford workers at Dagenham didn't get anywhere when they asked nicely for equal pay, they had to strike. To get publicity. To put pressure on the unions and on the government. To meet government ministers and say no, actually we won't go away and wait patiently because men aren't ready yet, and we won't make do with half-measures.

The rights women have today were hard-won. And must be defended just as robustly.

Or MrJudgey, support the women inside of the communities in their struggle to fight for their rights. Listening to them and giving the support requested and pulling up the support their misogynistic elements get from our leaders and communities - they can't do it without the backing, even if said backing is unspoken and systematic. There are many ways to help another's struggles without degrading their identity.