Latest attack in Syria

[Jammybean]

Just watching BBC news, they were frantically trying to save a toddler who was convulsing . I feel physically sick.

[noddyholder]

THis looks like disaster.

[noddyholder]

[NicholasTeakozy]

that's why every time Labour gets in to power it fucks the economy

Nothing to do with the banks then? Of course not, it's Neoliberalman, riding to the rescue to privatise the profits and socialise their debts. As usual.

As far as RT goes I trust it more than I do the BBC or what passes for independent media in this country. Fwiw, you'll probably find similar on Aljazeera, or alternative news sites.

[niceguy2]

what a crying shame it is you never actually lived in a communist country under the Soviets, because I've never met a single person - not one - who lived under it who thought it was better than the alternative.

I'd agree with that. My wife grew up under a communist regime. She thinks that socialists are idiots.

[flatpackhamster]

NicholasTeakozy

Nothing to do with the banks then? Of course not, it's Neoliberalman, riding to the rescue to privatise the profits and socialise their debts. As usual.

Yes, yes, the same old refrain. As usual. It's never the fault of nice socialists that their dreadful schemes fail, it's always someone evil plotting outside who ruins it all. You guys sound like conspiracy theorists. Which in many respects is what you are.

As far as RT goes I trust it more than I do the BBC or what passes for independent media in this country. Fwiw, you'll probably find similar on Aljazeera, or alternative news sites.

Have you lived in a communist country?

[EldritchCleavage]

I wonder at what point the West decides that Zimbabwe hasn't made the necessary neo-liberal reforms that would allow western banks and corporations to steal from its people

What utter fucking bollocks, Mini. They are already stealing from its people very nicely thank you with the help of Mugabe and Zanu-PF, which sits atop a very efficient kleptocracy hand-in-glove with Western and SA mining companies and the like. The Zimbabwe regime is very friendly to discreet Western partners, so if 'the West' ever does go in, it won't be to facilitate business deals, there's no need.

[MiniTheMinx]

noddyholder They are loons. To think these people have such power is truly scary. Hillary Clinton is laughing like a mad women and then goes on to say about someone presumably Iran or terrorists (again) attacking the U.S because that would legitimise the regime. All roads lead to Tehran. The Americans put the Shah in place and they haven't been happy since that evil bastard was ousted out by the Iranian people.

I found this interesting www.michaelparenti.org/iran_and_everything_else.html

The Iranians have today said that they have some evidence that shows that the rebels are responsible.

flatpackhamster, you are obsessed with Communism to the point of derangement, get over it, its boring. Insinuating that everyone on the left is a labour voting Champagne socialist, a Trot or Stalinist makes you look very silly. Its a little like claiming that all right wingers are working class turkeys voting for Christmas because of ignorance. Clearly there are some that are wealthy and privileged who do very well from a system of exploitation.

[MiniTheMinx]

I haven't said otherwise EldritchCleavage, I'm sure that Mugabe and his chums do very well whilst telling the people that the wealth is shared. What you say makes perfect sense of why Britain and U.S haven't done anything.

[Rooners]

I am really scared. Can anyone say anything conforting at all please?

[flatpackhamster]

MiniTheMinx

flatpackhamster, you are obsessed with Communism to the point of derangement, get over it, its boring.

I will if you will. Look, simple question. Which communist countries have you lived in? When were you there? Because it'd be quite wierd to be espousing a system of governance and economy (which you are) while having absolutely no first-hand experience of conditions in one. Your posts mourn the loss of the evil Soviet system, you post endlessly about how dreadful capitalism and democracy are and I'd just like to be reassured that you actually lived under communism and know what it's really like.

I haven't, but then I'm not telling everyone how amazing it is.

Insinuating that everyone on the left is a labour voting Champagne socialist, a Trot or Stalinist makes you look very silly.

It would if I did. I do meet normal rational people who vote Labour. But the problem is that everyone here is one of those three. And the further to the left they are, as a rule, the less actual real experience of the real world they tend to have. Naice middle class marxists with their university jobs and their public sector pensions, never having spent time outside their bubble of privilege. And it is privilege to travel through your life, going to school, then university, then never leaving academia and imagining that you have any comprehension of real life.

Clearly there are some that are wealthy and privileged who do very well from a system of exploitation.

I have literally no idea what this is referring to. Did you read the numbers I laid out for you? You seem to have skipped over them. Is a tripling of GDP 'exploitation'? Is a huge increase in income even for the poorest 'exploitation'?

[flatpackhamster]

Rooners
I am really scared. Can anyone say anything conforting at all please?

Don't worry, Barack Obama will intervene. Eventually.

[noddyholder]

Obama? Now I am scared

[fromparistoberlin]

"I am really scared. Can anyone say anything conforting at all please?"


No, unfortunately I am starting to think its 50:50 likelihood to be the rebel forces. both are evil frankly

so, how can we intervene? Kill everyone? what the fuck are an army supposed to do, as any attack will kill as many innocents as guilty

The only logical solution would be to provide aid for the many refugee camps, and ensure that the innocents who escape have somewhere to rest their head. That would be cheaper than war too. then I guess sit it out? But civil wars as we know last for decades.

Sorry, its unspeakably awful and I can see no end in sight, and no solution

there is a Syrian mum at school, not seen her all summer. I will weep when I see her I think

[ElenorRigby]

MiniTheMinx wrote:
"Arms have been pouring in over the Turkish boarder, apparently these are from Saudi and Qatar, many are U.S made. If America really didn't want the Islamist rebels armed they wouldn't sit back and condone (or encourage) the Saudis. I think it will be years before we finally get to hear whether the CIA have been stoking up the unrest from the start. Maybe they have, maybe they haven't.

What happens after they oust Bashar al-Assad? I suppose thousands more will be killed by sectarian struggle for control. "

Anyone else remember the conditioning we the UK population we exposed to 10+ years ago?

WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.

Back then people didnt buy it despite the PR. I, with at least another million strong Stop the (Iraq) War protest in London.

TonyB Lair dismissed our MASSIVE protest as we got the bus home.

According to the Lancet in 2008, 650,000 Iragi people had been killed thus far (back then)


NOW they want killl lot's of Syrians too.

Marvellous

[MiniTheMinx]

Hamster, if you want to discuss communism so badly start a thread about it.

Who are these "normal rational people" who vote labour? If you are telling me that these normal rational people are working class and these are the people you know, am I to extrapolate from this that you are working class? Am I allowed to make assumptions as you do? If so, I guess you are a turkey voting for Christmas and not one of the wealthy privileged who benefit from this system of exploitation. To say that everyone here is not a "normal rational" person is making the mistake of thinking that anyone who is a "normal rational" left winger is probably an illiterate who can't type or use the internet. On the other hand if we allow ourselves to think everyone here who is on the left is an irrational middle class academic then we could so easily write off every right winger as being an unenlightened philistine who through some luck happens to have the ability to type, even if they make little sense. Or perhaps they are not, perhaps they are people who defend capital because they benefit from it even when they know that they are privileged, in which case that is not ignorance but immorality.

GDP is a measure of gross domestic product not a measure of wealth distribution.

[niceguy2]

What I want to know is what DC is doing to sort out the Spanish, not the Syria.

There's no upside with interfering with another middle east country. The rebels at best are the least worst choice. And even then only by a hair.

All the while Spain is fucking about in Gibraltar and the UK government seems to be doing fuck all.

[Lazyjaney]

Chemical Weapons of Mass Destruction. - groundhog day.

Why is killing people by Chemical weapons not ok, but shelling, shooting or stabbing them is OK.

We are being softened up to go stumbling into another war, and our politicians are lining up to go again.

[MiniTheMinx]

We have never been at war with Al Qaida, we have always been at war with Al Assad". Indeed, but I would add to that we have always been at war with any country which is anti-imperialist. Capital goes to war on everything and everyone that stands between it and growth.

Why might Iran or NK develop nuclear weapons? might it be because the experience of the cold war points to the fact that America will not strike a country that has nuclear weapons. It has ridden roughshod over virtually all other poorer, undeveloped or social democratic countries, using a variety of cooked up reasons ranging from human rights abuses, to the belief that those countries harbour terrorists. Russia have warned that a strike against Syria will create a sort of war not seen before in the middle east.

Apparently the rebels have used chemical weapons, probably Sarin on two previous occasions which were given some coverage early on even in the mainstream press. This was duly glossed over and we are expected to believe that they haven't access to these relatively easily made chemicals now. Although it could have been supplied to them???

scriptonitedaily.wordpress.com/2013/08/27/us-general-wesley-clark-war-on-syria-planned-in-1991-as-part-of-middle-east-land-grab/
The Americans have been planning to go into Syria since 1991.

[niceguy2]

How strong is the evidence?

According to John Kerry, it's 'common sense' that this is the work of Assad.

Let's for a moment say it is. Let's say common sense dictates that it is Assad. So what?

In both the UK & US we don't put anyone in prison unless the state can prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty.

So given we don't put a single person in prison without a mountain of evidence, why the fuck would we/should we be happy to bomb them based on 'common sense'.

They'd better have some damn good evidence.

[MiniTheMinx]

Absolutely, niceguy we wouldn't take away a persons liberty on gut instinct, wishful thinking or common sense but we'll happily murder millions of innocents.

[CoteDAzur]

Actually, it's not common sense at all.

Assad is UK educated and has lived there for many years. He understands the Western mindset and knows as well as the rest of us that using chemical weapons is the one thing that will galvanise foreign public opinion for invasion of his country.

Common sense says that Assad would avoid this at all cost.

[CoteDAzur]

"Have you lived in a communist country?" is a very relevant question, actually.

You wouldn't claim a food is delicious without tasting it. You wouldn't say anal sex is great if you have never tried it. And you really shouldn't go on about how wonderful a regime communism is if you have never lived in a communist country.

[niceguy2]

Oh I agree with you Cote. In my opinion it's not common sense at all. But my point is even if it were, it's still not enough evidence to warrant bombing the crap out of them and risking innocent people being caught as 'collateral damage'

Do the politician's really not see that the more we stick our noses into their business, the more they hate us?

[CoteDAzur]

Politicians' reasoning probably takes into consideration that the rebels are religious fundamentalists. If they take power, they are likely to turn their back to western interests. And frankly, nobody wants another Iran.

So, if Assad is on the way out, they might consider it a better strategy to go in and bring to power a puppet government someone more Western.