Shah - underage girls are 'out to have a good time'

[poachedeggs]

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/10/eddy-shah-operation-yewtree-sexual-abuse

No, she needs to be over 16.

But if she doesn't look like a grown woman then it is obvious that any man wanting to have sex with her must make certain that she is at least 16yrs. Just like shops ask for ID from anyone who looks under 21yrs.

I have known 14 year olds who would have probably gone along with that scenario unfortunately.

I would think a man that did that would be a hideous freak, but are we just talking about that particular scenario, or are we talking about 14/15 year olds seeking out sex with older guys in general??

So if a 15 year old has sex with a 17 year old, willingly and enthusiastically. Technically she has been raped, yes?
Technically, we should feel just as outraged and upset about her exploitation, as we would about a stranger rape, because rape is rape.

I think the whole statutory rape thing was a really useful distinction, and I think it does victims a disservice to not have that distinction anymore.

Have you guys seen this groupie magazine from the 70s
I seriously Q what age the girls are although they could be 20 I suppose

Children who think they want sex with adults are very likely to be children who have experience some form of abuse or neglect, which makes them crave attention from adults. It is the responsibility of adults not to take advantage of a child's vulnerability. I don't care how much a child throws themselves at an adult, it is the adults responsibility to say no. Also just because an adult claims the child 'wanted it' doesn't mean that the child actually did. Far more likely they wanted some love and attention.

we're not talking about two adolescents having sex with each other though. we're talking about adults (at least 18yrs) having sex with children who are 15 yrs or younger.

Branleuse - in practice that distinction still does exist. A 15 year old and 17 year old is viewed differently to a 15 year old and 30 year old.

Also, I do think there is often a very laisse faire attitude towards underage sex. Plenty of times I've seen in here "oh, you can't stop them, just make sure they're being safe" even when the couple in question were a pair of 14 year olds.

Again, it also doesn't seem to occur to parents in these situations to consider if these sexual relationships their teenagers are having are actually consensual. People think it's other people who do things like that, not someone they know.

If your an adult and your going to have sex,its not to hard only do it if your certain the other part is over 16.

Any doubt at all and you don't do it you walk away.

Even if the girl had been 16 and of an age to consent, is it really okay for an older man to be attracted to her, to treat her like a fuck toy and involve her in activity that many grown women would be uncomfortable with.

At that age, attention from an older man can be flattering but young girls are not experienced enough to recognise or distinguish a normal loving sexual relationship from one that is perverted or deviant. So even at 16 and older, the responsibility to only engage in sexual acts with a party who understands and consents lies with the older party. If she doesn't understand then it's not consensual no matter how much she appears to say yes.

Threesomes, prostitution and young girls is never going to be a consensual act regardless of what the young girl says. Even if it's not legally defined as rape, by what moral compass are these men going by to justify their own orgasm.

no it's not ok. it's predatory, power mad, vile behaviour.

but the law allows for it.

it doesn't allow for it with under 16yos and yet in practice you see very few convictions or sentences and a hell of a lot of victim blaming and being let off in the courts.

what scares me about that is that predatory, power mad, vile aspect of male sexuality must be pretty widespread if men of all classes, education levels and professions seem so able and ready to empathise with these men and defend them. that really saddens me.

i also wonder whether men confuse 'oh i've secretly fantasised about that' with being able to empathise and feel like they are the same as the man who actually does it what you fantasise about is between you and your wank sock. these guys are actually doing it to actual real female children.

It's odd, though, that we think 15.5 is a girl child and 16, is what? A woman?

I disagree. I think it's completely unhelpful to treat two fifteen year olds as different from a fifteen and a thirty year old. And having this patchwork system of underage rights and wrongs has got us into a muddle.

No at 16 she's a girl (albeit in theory with parental consent) that a man can have sex with.

In many ways we are all to blame for standing by and allowing our children to become sexualised so early.

Is the problem sexualised or unsupervised? How is it that the children are free to be having sex in the first place?

I'd be willing to bet that there are some parents and guardians out there who care far more about, and keep a much closer eye on, their wallets and purses than they do on their children.

No, the problem is with the men who think they are entitled to have access to female bodies. The problem is with rape culture that tells them that it's okay.

Saying it's about the sexualisation of children puts the blame with the victims. A normal man can see a 16 girl in a skimpy outfit and not think that entitles him to fuck her. Let's leave the condemnation and judgement for the ones who think otherwise.

Hmm, not sure I agree we're all to blame for over-sexualisation of young girls.

Some of us have been trying to fight the objectification of women and girls and our classification as the sex-class for years and we get called prudes and/ or man-haters because of it.

I mean it in a more general sense.
Provocative clothes, emphasis on looks, make up, boy bands, all that sort of nonsense. Easy to blame magazines and the nebulous 'media' but how about parents taking some responsibility-fathers in particular?

Moondog, that's still victim blaming.

The problem lies with the men, not with the children.

at 16 do you need parental consent to have sex?

Not at all.
Stop and think a little before going into man hating frenzy.
Men, the men who are (or should be) in these girls' lives have a very important role to play.
In a proactive and not reactive sense.

The problem lies with the men, the court system and the law. But parents and guardians also have to safeguard. That's what they're there for.

Does a 'normal' man think it is okay to have sex with a 16 yo if she claims/states she wants to have sex with him?
What is normal?

My friend in his mid 40s has recently been having sex with girls sub 20. (18 and 19 yo) He isn't paying or grooming them but I find it distasteful.
I know it's only sex and that they are adult but something feels wrong about it