Shah - underage girls are 'out to have a good time'

[poachedeggs]

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/10/eddy-shah-operation-yewtree-sexual-abuse

its grim both ways IMO

branleuse do you know many 14 year olds who would happily and willingly have a threesome with a much older man and a prostitute? This wasn't a couple of people forming a loving relationship and having sex., it wasn't an "instinctive and compelling urge". Yes there are some terrible analogies here.

i just thought of something.

the same 12yo girl could be involved in two court cases.

case 1: her mother is being prosecuted for not sending her dd to school. despite the fact that she delivers her to school daily and the child runs away, despite the fact the mother has begged for help she can be found guilty and fined or even imprisoned because the child is a minor and her agency or behaviour is not taken into account, it's the mum's fault in the eyes of the law.

case 2: a 45yo man is being tried for having sex with the same 12yo girl. suddenly it's all about her and her agency and her responsibility for her own behaviour and she may even get called 'a sexual predator'. the man gets off because of her agency and supposed consent.

why is the 12yo totally not responsible in case 1 and totally responsible in case 2? i have to make my 12yo go to school because she's a 'child' and my responsibility and her refusal to go is no defense. but if i'm a man sticking my dick in a 12yo my excuse is taht she wanted me to.

it just came into my head that it could be literally the same girl but the court will see her agency and responsiblity entirely differently depending on whether a man's dick was involved.

Unfortunately though it probably does happen because the young girl has a history of extreme abuse and neglect that has conditioned her to this. It's never acceptable and imperative that we condemn it. However, taking advantage of this vulnerability in the 1970's when no one really gave two shits about young girls from vulnerable or abused background was morally repugnant but probably not criminal. I think it's mainly unfortunate this man gets to air his views at all so that idiots on comment boards across the country can air their appreciation of his position. I'm more worried about the current cultural context where this is newsworthy and his opinion is given validity by being printed than the idea of him being a risk to girls because he probably isn't other than in having his opinion taken seriously without challenge in the article.

no-one has said it would be OK if the sexes were reversed in this case but they have justified it in the past because 'boys will be boys'; but the women involved were seen as crazy

At the end of the day, the young girl is going to suffer for throwing herself at older men. Does it really matter whether he is guilty or not? It's her life that is damaged.

He can be convicted and pay the price for the crime (imprisonment ans sex offenders' list) but that doesn't remove the stain from the girl. It doesn't make it right for her that he should have known better.

We need to teach our daughters not to be tarts, for their own sakes.

swallowedAfly a good point but the man in case 2 would be charged with rape.

A lot of people also think the responsibility/motivation for getting to school is down to the child including said parents.

What happened about the Mandy Smith case? Dated a Rolling Stone at 14 and then married him (divorced after a couple of years). She was a year older than me and I remember thinking she was actually much more sophisticated than I'd ever be at 14.

stain? and tarts? ouch.

really?

please god somebody come and respond to that coherently.

i don't have the words. just sad to know people really do think like this.

In all these cases I just have to wonder how difficult it is for these men to keep their pants on. They have brains and the ability to talk. They can say no.
The fact they have not and do not says something about their weird views on girls.
If you are under 16 you are generally rather immature. (I'm sure there is tons of anecdotes of super-mature 15 year-olds. )That goes for both genders, simply because you haven't quite finished puberty, and you have not lived long enough to mature intellectually or emotionally.
If in doubt, zip up. It's really not more difficult than that.

'We need to teach our daughters not to be tarts, for their own sakes.
Perhaps we need to teach our sons not to rape children!

The whole scenario is lost on me when I try to imagine anyone 'throwing themselves' at that vile piece of male.

That simply cannot have happened.

I have never ever met a 15yr old who looks like an adult women. Ignorance is no excuse for an adult man sexually abusing a child. And now we're supposed to feel sorry for all these men who can't tell the difference between a child and a grown women.

But actually this 'throwing themselves' at someone concept is interesting..........
What does that even mean?
What do these women apparently do?
Smile?
Laugh?
Force the penis into their vagina?

Exactly, how exactly does a young teenager force an adult to have sex with them? there is such a huge imbalance of power between an adult and a child, that is why a 'child' can't consent to sex.

i have no idea. how a girl child overpowers a grown man and forces him to have sex with her is lost on me.

also how a 12, 13, 14yo girl could appear to be a grown woman is lost on me.

also how the idea of having sex with someone who should be sticking in a taxi and delivering home or taking into the nearest police station or social services dept is lost on me.

also how a prosecutor can call a 12yo abused child a sexual predator and still have a job ten seconds later (or his life if you happened to be armed and present) is lost on me.

So he is basically saying if an underage girl wants to sleep with an older man it's not rape....(even if the man knows her age and knows it's illegal because she's asking for it)

So by this logic then if a 15 year old girl and older man Rob a bank at the girls suggestion the girl is the only one to blame because she was the one to suggest it even though the older guy knows its illegal.

So basically he is saying he is a weak pathetic man, who doesn't have enough of a moral code to do the right thing. Why have people given such a waste of space airtime!

how does a teenage girl like that not give off huge limping gazelle signals to anyone who comes across to her? we should be asking why these men are turned on by fucking the limping gazelle, what that tells us about them, their sexuality and the culture that supports them. of course they know they are children - that's what the appeal is. of course they know they have all the power - again that's exactly what the appeal is.

it's not a case of persuading men that little girls are children, they know that and they like it. it's a case of society saying it is not ok for you to fuck our children and when you do you will be punished.

I wasn't aware that grown men wanted to have sex with 15 or 16 year old girls when I was that age.
I was really shocked when I was in situations where they made that clear to me. I was doubly shocked when sometimes it was someone's dad or a family friend who made a sexual advance.

My mother had spoken to me fairly sensibly about sex but I simply never imagined a grown man...over the age of maybe 21 perhaps..would even look at me in that manner as I never would have considered him in a sexual or romantic or whatever way.

I do now and alway have wondered what a groupie gets from the exchange? It isn't fame or love or money. Is it simply surprise that an adult feels something sexual toward them? Dunno ramble ramble

Because our legal system appears to tolerate such stupidity and even caters for it.

alternatively could we just arm a small group of women with long range sniper rifles and discretely take them out? any volunteers?

The groupie gets attention from somebody famous.

Here here Swallowedfly

obviously these men like the whole hunter and prey scenario so we'll just play that game the other way round. seems fair.

The concept of a 13-1511/12 not looking like a grown woman is nonsense
The problem is that the young person need only look over the age of 16. She is not required to look like a grown woman