Soldier beheaded in Woolwich and it took police 20 mins

[bkgirl]

Why am I not surprised? 20 minutes, what chance do we have with this pathetic response. As for the barracks...why couldn't someone come out with a gun and at least prevent these guys from attacking anyone else. Who was guarding the army base - do they have guns? Dreadful.

I also thought it was ledkrs question but thought it seemed amazingly out of character :)

I guess that's what I was thinking fanjo! Who moi? A bloody sexist? Think not.
Sorry for the stroppyness Ive been up with the whinger since 5.30.
It wears in a woman it really does

I dont really see the time to respond as an issue , ok if no-one had arrived on the scene until an hour later i could perhaps understand the Op's post .
I think that if two men set about you with machete's in the street , your chances of surviving such an attack are remote to say the least , regardless of how quickly reinforcements arrive .
How anyone could question why a female armed response officer attended , is beyond all sense , in this situation the genitalia a police officer is born with matters not a jot , as she succintly proved by shooting the bastard !

I'm actually quite incredulous at those who are asking why a female officer was sent!?!?!

Seriously!?! What century are they living in? I thought we wanted an equal society? She was the nearest armed response unit (presumably), she responded and by all accounts did her job and did it well.

20 mins response time is a lifetime when incidents like this happen but as a society we don't want routine arming of police. So we HAVE to accept therefore that any incidents requiring armed response will be slower.

If you want a faster response then the only realistic way this can be done is to arm more officers. It's not something I want to see despite yesterday's tragic events.

We were not asking that niceguy I heard it asked on sky news but it could have been that they meant us there a relevance to it from a cultural sense.

The whole thing is dreadful, that young man's poor family. . Those women (the cub scout lady, the police officer and women shielding the body) were brave and brilliant though.

Amazing women I agree. They should get an award.

Why do so many people have to swear on this forum to make their point? This is an emotive issue for those of us that have lost friends or family due to terrorists but swearing feels like bullying.

I guess the IPCC investigation will determine what happened and hopefully improvements will be made. I just think there should be some people trained to take action around such obvious targets such as army barracks. This IS something mi5 and mi6 did see coming.

The bravery of the ladies involved was tremendous and I certainly agree, we were lucky no other lives were lost.

Correction: this is an emotive issue for MOST of us (not just those directly affected by terrorism).

Because people swear.
It's not bullying. If you feel bullied then report the post.
If you want a forum that does not tolerate swearing, this isn't it.

Assume you've seen it was 9 minutes before they had someone on the scene, 14 mins to get an armed officer there?

Thanks pootles, I just read that too....so NOT 20 mins then, and a rapid response to a situation. I think they did very well in the circumstances.

From the Guardian website

Our colleague Vikram Dodd has sent us this timeline on police reaction to Wednesday's terrorist attack.

14.20 "We first received a 999 call from the public at 14:20hrs stating a man was being attacked". Then "further 999 calls stated that the attackers were in possession of a gun"

14.24 Armed officers ordered to scene14.29 First unarmed officers arrive: "We had officers at the scene within 9 minutes of receiving that first 999 call."

14.34 "Firearms officers were there and dealing with the incident 10 minutes after they were assigned, 14 minutes after the first call to the Met."

Here is the full statement from Assistant Commissioner Simon Byrne:

Today our shock at what happened on the streets of our city remains.

The investigation into the shocking murder of a serving soldier yesterday is ongoing, and is of course a major investigation for us.

It is only right that the ongoing investigations are allowed to take place, and they must take as long as is needed without anyone pre-empting what they may conclude. I would ask for Londoners help and support for us to continue. Please remain calm. London is at its best when we all come together and now is the time to do that.

One point I would like to address is around some of the speculation as to how long it took the Met to respond yesterday as this incident started to unfold. We first received a 999 call from the public at 14:20hrs stating a man was being attacked, further 999 calls stated that the attackers were in possession of a gun. We had officers at the scene within 9 minutes of receiving that first 999 call.

Once that information about a gun or guns being present was known firearms officers were assigned at 14:24hrs. Firearms officers were there and dealing with the incident 10 minutes after they were assigned, 14 minutes after the first call to the Met.

What is even more important today is that we continue to work together, and we are working with our communities. We are here to listen and understand the concerns that this brutal attack will have raised.

The Borough Commander in Greenwich held a meeting with community leaders last night and we are grateful for the support from the public.

There has been an increased police presence in Woolwich and the surrounding areas overnight and this will continue for as long as it is needed. We will continue to monitor the situation throughout.

I agree, must have been bloody terrifying to be that first officer there, with a machete wielding loon, unarmed, for those five minutes...

I have coped with coped with serious intimidation from paramilitaries in the past, so really - people on a forum who are genuinely annoyed swearing, no I will not report.
Fine to be upset and disagree, I just think some other mumsnet contributors might feel bullied if they don't use this kind of language themselves (very much!) and be too frightened to contribute.

Well if you are on concerned about the tone and think it might upset other people, not you of course, then report it.

MNHQ can't do much about it if you don't report bullying posts. I report if I think someone is being bullying or aggresive to another poster.
But I don't personally regard swearing as bullying.

14 minutes not just to arrived, but arrived and deployed ready to act. Good skills.

The gates of the barracks is two blocks away and not in line of sight, btw. The people there would not have been aware of the incident until they saw police arriving.

Good, glad the commander clarified the situation - that said, I wait and independent report. That means, the video footage should show armed officers there at 14:34.

OP, wind your neck in.

As others have said there are rules of engagement which have to be followed. We live in a relatively civilised country, how would it be if the armed forces or their agents (MPGS/MoD Police) randomly started shooting people who were not at that moment in time endangering human life? By the time they would have got there, the attackers were grand standing, not attacking people.

20 minutes for an armed Police response is good, given the area and the time of day.

In future, may I suggest you keep your ill informed ramblings to yourself?

What would it have changed? That poor man would still be dead, they (the murderers) had done what they wanted, they stood and waited for the police. If the police had got there after 5 mins nothing would be any different, that mans life could not have been saved.

So op do tell with your extensive non existent knowledge and expertise how would you have done things differently?

My rather cynical son just pointed out that it was almost a shame the police aimed for the legs and not elsewhere since "they will do a few years then get out".
I disagreed because I think a shoot to kill policy is wrong and due process should be observed or society would end up in chaos. That said, look what happened in Northern Ireland, look who our government ministers are - eg. Sinn Feinn in charge of education.
I wonder what future cabinet posts these guys will have - give it 20 years. Population changes often determine what happens.
For peace to come we have paid a VERY high price.

I expect the Met Commander will be chewing his nails fretting, will he meet the expectations of ome self important random on the Internet.

Personally I would prefer his attention was focused upon the incident rather than the pitchfork wavers who seem determined that the police must have fucked up.

I think the police did the best they could in the circumstances.

Just a point: all of you who are piling in and attacking the op with such vigour, are you feeling the same kind of anger towards the murderers who carried out this horrific act?

My dd goes to school half a km from my house it takes me five minutes to walk there.

Those police were armed and attending within 15 minutes, from considerably more than 500 m away it appears. I actually think that's a pretty damn good response time.

Personally I think we SHOULD routinely arm our police, in the cities at least, then those on the scene could have dealt with yesterdays events quicker, but that's a whole other thread and probably not appropriate here.