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Get the feeling Charles pushing Camilla as Queen?

172 replies

bkgirl · 08/05/2013 15:10

Fine, the Queen is elderly and needs to cut back.
Fine, Charles is stepping up.
Fine, Charles is with Camilla.
However, I feel he is pushing Camilla on to us as queen and frankly with the history of the whole thing....it's just not on. Diana was far from perfect (who is) but C&C manipulation of her, from the train carriage just before the wedding to the phonecalls from Britannia during the honeymoon - no. They used her for breeding and I just think to let Camilla become Charles Queen would make a lot of people who are quite royalist lose faith. I really think that's why the poor queen has hung on so long. She is wise. Thank goodness for William and Kate.

Camilla could be some sort of consort but nothing more. Frankly I do not trust Charles at all on this.

OP posts:
olgaga · 09/05/2013 15:24

I don't want Camilla to be Queen. I certainly don't want Charles to be King.

But ho hum, there'll be no revolution. Just years and years of public ridicule and embarrassment.

Especially if the "black spiders" are ever published.

olgaga · 09/05/2013 15:25

Carpe great minds...etc...

LottieJenkins · 09/05/2013 15:37

Stupid question (probably) Why wasnt the QM QE2 and the current Queen QE3......?

SconeRhymesWithGone · 09/05/2013 15:43

Lottie

Because only queens regnant (queens who reign in their own right) get numerals. Queens consort (who are called queen only because they are married to a king) don't get numerals.

olgaga · 09/05/2013 15:43

Because it's not automatic on marriage. The current Queen was heir to the throne - her mother, Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon (QM) married in.

Like the Duke of Edinburgh isn't King.

I understood that she would be titled "Princess Consort Camilla" - not Queen Camilla.

To me she'll always be "The OW" Grin

AMumInScotland · 09/05/2013 15:44

I assume it was because she was only a queen consort and not the ruler, whereas both QE and QE2 ruled in their own right.

olgaga · 09/05/2013 15:45

Ps I understand that the QM's official title was the "Queen Consort" until QE2 was crowned.

BalloonSlayer · 09/05/2013 15:55

The King's wife is the Queen, and that is the end of the matter.

All this stuff about "the Duchess of Cornwall" etc was put in firstly so it didn't look as if she was taking Diana's titles, but also (I believe) so that people would think that perhaps it would be a Morganatic Marriage (King has a wife who is not the Queen, which was suggested and rejected re Edward VIII and Mrs Simpson) and not make much fuss at the time. But that is not so. She will be the Queen. And good luck to the pair of them. I would not like to see a return to an age where a man cannot marry a divorcee and still be King.

HesterShaw · 09/05/2013 16:03

Makes me chuckle grimly that the problem with their marriage lay in the fact that SHE is divorced. The fact that he is divorced doesn't seem to matter much. What is this, Tudor England?

AMumInScotland · 09/05/2013 16:07

He wasn't divorced, he was widowed, as far as marriage is concerned. The difficulty is that she was divorced from a spouse who was still living. Once the ex-spouse has died, there is no problem with remarriage.

HesterShaw · 09/05/2013 16:09

No problem for Henry VIII in the 1520s though?

or was it 1530s?

SconeRhymesWithGone · 09/05/2013 16:12

The Queen Mother stopped being a queen consort as soon as her husband died. She took the title of Queen Mother a few days after his death; it had nothing to do with QEII's coronation.

KittenofDoom · 09/05/2013 16:17

Or indeed for Henry II when he married Eleanor of Aquitaine. She had been married to the King of France but their marriage was annulled even though they had children together (girls of course so no good).

BalloonSlayer · 09/05/2013 16:20

The Queen Mother stopped being a consort when her husband died and became a Dowager Queen. However she chose to be called the Queen Mother - perhaps because her mother-in-law, Queen Mary, was also still alive at that time, so there would have been two Dowager Queens, which would have been confusing.. If her daughter had not had the same name as her she would probably have just called herself Queen Elizabeth.

Another example: The Dowager Duchess of Devonshire. Her Husband the Duke of Devonshire Died and the title was inherited by their son. His wife becomes the Duchess of Devonshire and the wife of the late Duke becomes the Dowager Duchess.

AMumInScotland · 09/05/2013 16:23

Well Henry II wouldn't have been head of the CofE, since there wasn't one. And I think it took them a little while to decide that the head of the CofE ought to sort of pay some attention to the rules that everybody else was stuck with. And for the CofE to decide it ought to have some rules about divorce, once it got so that ordinary people could get one!

SconeRhymesWithGone · 09/05/2013 16:34

Annulments (which, of course, are different from divorces, especially in ecclesiastical terms) were not at all uncommon; all you needed was a compliant Pope. Unfortunately for Henry VIII, his particualr Pope was essentially a prisoner of his wife's nephew, so not very compliant.

HesterShaw · 09/05/2013 16:49

Charles V?

SconeRhymesWithGone · 09/05/2013 17:28

Hester

Yes, indeed. (I am such a history geek; I love these threads). Smile

olgaga · 09/05/2013 17:45

He wasn't divorced, he was widowed, as far as marriage is concerned.

Charles and Diana were divorced in 1996. She died the following year.

KittenofDoom · 09/05/2013 18:01

Annulments were frequently granted on the grounds of "consanguinity", meaning that the couple were related to each other. Since the royals only ever married other royals, they were all cousins, however distant, so this was just an excuse to end a marriage that was unsatisfactory for whateer reason.

BalloonSlayer · 09/05/2013 18:27

"Charles and Diana were divorced in 1996. She died the following year."

Yes but the point is, if you object to divorce, you are saying that divorce should not exist, and that in the eyes of God, couples who are divorced are in fact still married, and the only thing that ends a marriage is death. (That is the Roman Catholic view.)

If that is your view, then Diana's death made Charles' divorce irrelevant, as if you believe they remained married in God's eyes after their divorce, her death made him a widower. When he married Camilla he did not have an ex-wife, (or wife if you don't hold with divorce) still living - therefore he was free to marry in anyone's book.

Camilla was also divorced but her ex-husband is still alive.

Morally - they are both divorcees. In the eyes of a Church that does not believe in divorce, Camilla is divorced, Charles is a widower.

't'ain't fair but there it is . . .

AgathaF · 09/05/2013 18:41

Why is the Roman Catholic view relevant here? The royals are CofE aren't they? At least on paper.

I would like to see Camilla as Queen.

MardyBra · 09/05/2013 18:46

"Can't we have a tele-vote...or something ?"

How about a special reality TV event - Britain's got the Monarchy factor - Get Me Out of Here (on ice)?

We could line the royals up in the jungle and make them perform for the right of succession. If Camilla manages to neck a couple of witchety grubs, and sing "I will survive" for Ant and Dec whilst buried in a tomb of rats, then maybe we'd let her be Queen.

GoofyIsACow · 09/05/2013 18:47

I think William will become king, they will pass over Charles i hope

SconeRhymesWithGone · 09/05/2013 18:48

Charles and Diana were divorced in 1996. She died the following year.

However you want to frame the terms, the CofE has for most of its history not allowed remarriage in the church, if one (or both ) of the couple has a former spouse still living. That is why Princess Anne's remarriage was in the Church of Scotland.

The CofE has relaxed that position somewhat, but it is still problematical for a divorced person to marry in the Church if the former spouse is still living. So Charles's status was not the issue in his remarriage; it was Camilla's.