Toby Young - women don't want most childcare either

[Xenia]

Toby Young in today's Sunday Telegraph magazine Stella argues men do not want even more boring mindless childcare. Well nor do women. So the answer is have good careers as women and then you can avoid that dullness. It is not a gender issue. Clearing up sick is as boring for women as men. Lower earners may well be shunted into that dull stuff and to keep the higher earner man they have to do it but Mr Young needs to know plenty of women don't want to do more childcare either. I always thought two hours a day was pretty good including weekends. Too much more and you'd rather be doing other things.

It is ridiculous-sometimes it works well if they are close in age, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it works well with a big gap, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it works well with an 'only' sometimes it doesn't. We are individuals and not robots. Surely no one really believes that one size fits all or there is 'THE way'?

love that pretty sophisticated=no close gaps, alas ysophisticated is so loosely defined

Karlos, you forget that Bonsoir is a recognised expert in the parenting lark.

Recognised expert in disappearing up her own fundament more like

If you find yourself with a smaller gap, you have to pay. Of course. Nothing to do with sibling smothering, more to with bank balance.

Porto are you being ironic or arselicking?recognised expert!thats taking piss

There are economic and psychological issues around having children close in age. If you hire one person to look after them all then having them close together is sensible. If instead you are paying for one nursery place then yes it's cheaper to have one baby every 6 years or whatever. If one parent is stopping work and knows they will be able to go back (most never get back to a proper career though) then having them close can work well.

It can be nice for them to be close in age, go out together - my daughters are very similar ages/stages.

Medically plenty of women start their families at over 35 these days even though fertility plummets at 35 so if they want 3 or 4 they need to have them quickly one after the other. I started at 22.

Actually we are an interesting case as the younger two were 10 years after the others so I can see big and small age gaps. It is certainly nice for little ones to have very big siblings.

Very few people have the luxury of choosing when they want to have them.

why exotic ?

IME as with many things, the very wealthy mirror the least well off. In having generally speaking more dcs and those closer together. I needed to go back to work for a decent stint after ML to afford dc2. DH and I have decided to stop there for mainly practical/financial reasons.

eh?
Xenia has just said that she has a lot of them and close together in age.

Maybe my definition of mirror is wrong. You are saying that they do the same things??

yes

Do you not think Xeina is very wealthy ?

It's all relative. I could afford to pay 5 sets of school fees etc (just) but we certainly both worked hard for all money we ever got.

It is true that the rich and very poor often are the ones with larger families - Nicola Horlick (5/6), Helena Morrissey (9) etc etc

It is one of the lovely things about picking a good career as a woman - you can have the family you want. It is yet another reason to encourage teenage daughters to be the next Sandberg rather than work in the local nail bar. They get more choice and a nicer life if they pick well paid careers.

Also be careful who you marry. Around the time we might have gone for number 3 (2009/2010) DH was in and out of employment. I didn't fancy going back ft at 6 months cause we needed the money anymore than he fancied being a SAHD to a 6m d.

Indeed and others are the opposite. Before we married we knew I would earn more and their father suggested if finding a nanny did not work out he would stop work and bring the babies to me at lunch time to breastfeed etc. In fact it did work out and we both always worked full time but it's something couples who plan to marry ought to talk about carefully. Are you marrying a sexist egotistical pig or a man who sees marriage as a partnership who is as happy if you are successful as he is.

I would have thought that obvious, wishihadabs. If I had wanted to have a baby at 21yrs I couldn't, I had no partner and no means of support- I was a student.
I would have chosen to have 2 with a 2 year gap, but since I was widowed with a baby that never worked out. I ended up with an 8yr gap and then had a third, very quickly before I was too old, so that the second didn't become virtually an only DC at 10yrs,when the eldest went to university. I never intended to have DCs so late and I never intended to have a huge gap and a tiny gap.
I would imagine most people are similar, circumstances are not right. I know some women in their 30s who would love to settle down and have DCs but they haven't found the right person and they don't want to do it alone. I have had 6 yrs as a single parent and wouldn't recommend it.

I think you answered your own question, Wishihadabs- you didn't have the luxury of free choice either, I see.

I see what you mean. They are choices though, except for being widowed which is tragic obviously but rare.

Not really. I have a friend with a 10 year gap because although she tried for a 2year one it took 10 years. Another friend who gave up trying and had a surprise one 10 yrs after she was intending. Someone else who wanted 4 DCs but the last one turned out to be triplets- no way did she choose 6. I could go on and on. I think you are very lucky if you decide exactly when you will have DCs and manage it.

fair enough apparently 50% of pregnancis are unplanned. That does mean 50% are ..

I keep banging on about this, 40% of the world's population are the result of unplanned pregnancies. You can hoik judgy pants or accept the reality.

I have one friend who talked about exactly when she would have each child, I always felt it was tempting providence but it worked out exactly as she planned. I can't think of anyone else that I know who had such an exact plan that worked.

In the UK there is certainly more chance to plan pregnancies than there was in say 1901. I was determined when I was about 14 that I would have a lot of children so I made sure I married at 21 and got on with it. It is harder to have a lot if you start at 39. Some planning can take place.