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Bedroom tax will be costly disaster, says housing chief

999 replies

vivizone · 31/03/2013 06:51

I don't understand how they can implement it. When a council tenant signs the tenancy agreement, if bedroom tax is not mentioned, is it not illegal to implement it at a later date?

I don't see how it is enforceable. Let's say a tenant refuses to pay/can't pay. They then get evicted - wouldn't the council still be obliged to house them after eviction, especially if they have children?

The whole thing is a mess. Why so many changes all at the same time?!

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/mar/30/bedroom-tax-disaster-housing-chief

Cost-cutting policy will push up benefit bill, cause social disruption and create widespread misery, say critics

Ministers came under new fire over benefit cuts last night as the independent body representing 1,200 English housing associations described the controversial bedroom tax as bad policy and bad economics that risks pushing up the £23bn annual housing benefit bill.

David Orr, chief executive of the National Housing Federation, said the tax would harm the lives of hundreds of thousands of people. It comes into force this week alongside a range of other tax and benefit changes.

"The bedroom tax is one of these once-in-a-generation decisions that is wrong in every respect," he said. "It's bad policy, it's bad economics, it's bad for hundreds of thousands of ordinary people whose lives will be made difficult for no benefit ? and I think it's about to become profoundly bad politics."

His intervention came as opponents launched nationwide protests against the tax, which will hit 660,000 households with each losing an estimated average of £14 a week.

Crowds gathered in London's Trafalgar Square yesterday to protest against the measure, and simultaneous protests were being held in towns and cities across the UK. One protester, Sue Carter, 58, from Waltham Forest, told the Observer: "I'm a working single parent with a tiny boxroom and now I'm faced with the choice between food, heat or paying the bedroom tax. People have looked after their homes, improved them ? why should they be turfed out?"

Under the scheme, which is introduced tomorrow, people in social housing with one spare bedroom will have their housing benefit cut by 14%, while those with two or more unoccupied rooms will see it slashed by 25%.

Ministers say the tax, which David Cameron calls the "spare room subsidy", will encourage people to move to smaller properties and save around £480m a year from the spiralling housing benefit bill. But critics such as the National Housing Federation (NHF) argue that as well as causing social disruption, the move risks increasing costs to taxpayers because a shortage of smaller social housing properties may force many people to downsize into the more expensive private rented sector.

The federation's warnings came as charities said the combination of benefit cuts and tax rises coming in from this week will amount to a £2.3bn hit on family finances.

Labour said analysis of official figures showed average families would be £891 worse off in the new tax year as the changes ? including those to tax credits and housing benefits ? begin to bite.

Research by the NHF says that while there are currently 180,000 households that are "underoccupying two-bedroom homes", there are far fewer smaller properties in the social housing sector available to move into. Last year only 85,000 one-bedroom homes became available. The federation has calculated that if all those available places were taken up by people moving as a result of the "bedroom tax", the remaining 95,000 households would be faced with the choice of staying put and taking a cut in income, or renting a home in the private sector.

If all 95,000 moved into the private sector, it says the cost of housing benefit would increase by £143m, and by millions more if others among the remaining 480,000 affected chose to rent privately.

As well as the move on spare bedrooms, council tax benefit will be replaced from this week by a new system that will be run by English local authorities but on 10% less funding. Pensioners will be protected under the changes but, as a result, it is feared there will be a bigger burden on poor working-age adults. Restrictions on the uprating of a number of welfare payments will also hit millions of households, homelessness charity Crisis has warned.

Chief executive Leslie Morphy said: "Our poorest households face a bleak April as they struggle to budget for all these cuts coming at once. People are already cutting back on the essentials of food and heating but there is only so much they can do.

"The result will be misery ? cold rooms, longer queues at food banks, broken families, missed rent payments and yet more people facing homelessness ? devastating for those directly affected, but bad for us all."

A Department for Work and Pensions spokesman said: "Our welfare reforms will improve the lives of some of the poorest families in our communities, with universal credit simplifying the complex myriad of benefits and making three million people better off. And by next year, we will have taken two million of the lowest earners out of paying tax altogether."

Crisis argues that homelessness is set to rise dramatically. This winter has already seen a rise of 31% in the numbers of rough sleepers across the country and a 20% rise in people seeking help with homelessness from their local authority in the past two years, according to Crisis.

ChartiesCharities are also concerned that the government-funded network of homelessness advisers in England is to be scrapped. The team of regional advisers and rough sleeper and youth specialists which have provided councils with expert guidance on meeting statutory homelessness duties since 2007 will be disbanded just as the bedroom tax comes in. Also being scrapped are the crisis loans and community care grants which provided a lifeline for people in financial crisis who needed essentials when moving to a new home.

Shadow chancellor Ed Balls said: "This is the week when the whole country will see whose side David Cameron and George Osborne are really on and who is paying the price for their economic failure."

OP posts:
whiteandyellowiris · 01/04/2013 19:56

say for a single mum with one child, in a three bed house, how much extra a month would they lose?

flatbread · 01/04/2013 19:58

Polly, why should i assume she is working illegally? Do you ask everyone you enter a financial transaction with, to show you their tax bills and the line-item which includes your financial contribution?

I think you are just trying to create a bogeyman, to divert attention from the fact that there is no excuse for people to live on benefits as a life-style choice. My cleaner is a net contributor to society as compared to someone living on benefits.

lottieandmia · 01/04/2013 20:03

Couthy is absolutely right - there are a lot of polish people living here whose children still live in Poland and their husbands too - they send the money they earn here home (don't blame them!). As she rightly pointed out - they only have to support themselves alone here which is why they can cope financially. Some of you may pay £10 an hour but if you work as a cleaner for the NHS you will not get £10 an hour.

pollypandemonium · 01/04/2013 20:04

Do you know who is paying her national insurance? Businesses are registered and have their accounts open for scrutiny, self-employed people have registered and pay their own NI.

Of course there are a lot of people working cash in hand but it is against the law. Most Brits can only afford to dabble in this occasionally because there is too much to lose if they get caught. The migrant worker does not have quite as much to lose because they can go home or get another similar job and are not concerned about how it affects their pension and other personal tax matters.

pollypandemonium · 01/04/2013 20:07

The Polish people I know say their friends have babies here but send them back to Poland when they reach school age because the schools aren't as good here. Housing and childcare costs probably have a lot to do with this as well.

FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 20:09

polly - do you have any evidence for your assertion that migrant workers are more likely to commit fraud?

or just you prejudices?

PeneloPeePitstop · 01/04/2013 20:09

I consider myself a contributor, too.
From before my caring duties considerable taxes paid.
Since then I save taxpayers nine grand a week.

Yet people here still think they can treat me like muck on their shoe? Are you seeing yet why I feel those people should piss off?

lottieandmia · 01/04/2013 20:10

Oh and nobody is blaming pensioners - if the bastard conservatives start on them next I will be as angry and outraged as I am that they are shitting on poor people.

LMAO at the number of people here who think anyone can just go out and start their own business. What planets are you on? Not everyone has the capital to do this. This is the problem with Tory supporters

  • you only see what you want to see
  • you refuse to accept that some people are born with few opportunities that they will be able to do little to overcome in a capitalist country through no fault of their own. Sad but true.
FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 20:13

and people in communist countries do so well... oh no wait a minute.....

lottieandmia · 01/04/2013 20:18

FFS FasterStronger - did I say 'oh communism would be better'? Where? I am stating a fact about how it is for some people. But you would rather pretend that everyone is capable of being a high flyer.

I am all for people having ambition and wanting to make the most of their lives but some people are born with fewer opportunities than others which end up with them being poor. Not because they are lazy. Not because they are work shy. Because they are just unlucky.

VictorTango · 01/04/2013 20:20

I don't understand how many so many people on this thread can be naive or ignorant.

Once you are in the benefit trap, its very difficult to escape. I won't go into details as so many people have already explained the problems of the zero hours contract, the delays in receiving benefits and the sanctions imposed by UC.

Your Polish cleaner may earn £10 an hour but that is as irrelevant as me saying the local window cleaner gets £7 for cleaning my windows. I have no idea what his home set up.

The point is someone on benefits cannot afford to start their own business, cannot take any job that is offered to them and cannot work for just 5-6 hours a week.

If you think they can, then you need to go away and read a few older threads about the problems with benefits before commenting again.

Dawndonna · 01/04/2013 20:21

flatbread Faster etc
Believe it or not, this thread is not about your prejudices.

  1. There are very few people living on benefits as a lifestyle choice, it is a myth created by people hellbent on finding a scapegoat. Take a look at history, happens regularly.
  2. This thread is about the bedroom tax, the losers here to a great extent, are those with disabilities. Again.
  3. You employ a cleaner. So fucking what. Lucky her, she has a job. Lucky you you can behave like lady muck if you so choose. As I said before, I was a lecturer. DH was a lecturer. We were not expecting him to get an infection that turned out to be incurable. We were not expecting him to be given the wrong drugs so that an additional disability was added. However, that's an irrelavancy. As is the fact that this doesn't affect me, we own our house.
  4. As for the communism thing, oh do grow up, dearie.
skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 20:22

Many of our greatest entrepreneurs started life in poverty with few opportunities. It is that which has driven them, in many cases.

lottieandmia · 01/04/2013 20:27

Skinnywitch - entrepreneurs who have got themselves out of poverty have been successful in life in spite of the fact they were poor to begin with, not because of it! These people have talents that are unique which is why.

You honestly believe that every poor person in the UK is capable of the same?? Really??

VictorTango · 01/04/2013 20:28

Yes Skinny, the world is designed for every poor person to be a millionaire. Its just the lazy idle poor people, who don't take advantage of the thousands of opportunities open to them, that let the side down Hmm

skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 20:29

Tell me what opportunities are not available to the poor?

  1. Good, free education - check.

  2. Good, free healthcare - check.

lottieandmia · 01/04/2013 20:31

You really don't understand anything about socioeconomic background do you skinny?

Good, free health care? Not for much longer it seems..........

VictorTango · 01/04/2013 20:33

Good, free education - It does depend what your definition of 'good' is I suppose. I certainly wouldn't want my children attending certain inner city state comprehensives.

FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 20:33

lottie you have it the wrong way around. many entrepreneurs suffered during childhood (e.g. parental death) and this is thought to be what has made them.

besides - no one is suggesting someone on benefits becomes the new Warren Buffet - just they work - if they are well.

VictorTango · 01/04/2013 20:34

She really doesn't understand Lottie.

rhondajean · 01/04/2013 20:36

Some of the ignorance displayed on this thread makes me want to weep.

MiniTheMinx · 01/04/2013 20:36

Just stop all the communist countries.....lalalalalalalal
Russia, China, Korea all state capitalist.

What you know about communism is what you have been taught to think by a political elite that used the term to describe countries that failed to fall under their imperialist spell. It really is that simple.

Of course the state shouldn't be a huge bloated cash machine, it never was before we had capitalism and it won't be after..... but it is now! and the reasons is simple, there are winners and there are losers in this system and I for one am not prepared to shut up and pipe down while children, disabled and the poor are screwed over by the winners.

lottieandmia · 01/04/2013 20:36

Seriously, this would be funny if it wasn't so fucking depressing.

I grew up in a Tory voting family. If people are poor it's their own fault and so on load of bolleaux.

Interestingly they have had to do an about turn on their stupid beliefs since my severely disabled daughter was born, at which point they accepted that some people ARE just unlucky. The last election was the first one where they didn't vote for the tories.

skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 20:36

victor no, neither would I so we moved. Which others are free to choose to do.

And lottie I know more about socioeconomic background than most. I married a man from a deprived, miserable background who is a self made millionaire. So you can stick that where the sun don't shine.

rhondajean · 01/04/2013 20:39

Let's ignore the difficulties in business start up and the added difficulties of being poor such as access to finance etc - up to 50% of new businesses will fail in the first three to five years anyway.

Still

I suppose they could all set up their businesses in their spare rooms eh.