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Bedroom tax will be costly disaster, says housing chief

999 replies

vivizone · 31/03/2013 06:51

I don't understand how they can implement it. When a council tenant signs the tenancy agreement, if bedroom tax is not mentioned, is it not illegal to implement it at a later date?

I don't see how it is enforceable. Let's say a tenant refuses to pay/can't pay. They then get evicted - wouldn't the council still be obliged to house them after eviction, especially if they have children?

The whole thing is a mess. Why so many changes all at the same time?!

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/mar/30/bedroom-tax-disaster-housing-chief

Cost-cutting policy will push up benefit bill, cause social disruption and create widespread misery, say critics

Ministers came under new fire over benefit cuts last night as the independent body representing 1,200 English housing associations described the controversial bedroom tax as bad policy and bad economics that risks pushing up the £23bn annual housing benefit bill.

David Orr, chief executive of the National Housing Federation, said the tax would harm the lives of hundreds of thousands of people. It comes into force this week alongside a range of other tax and benefit changes.

"The bedroom tax is one of these once-in-a-generation decisions that is wrong in every respect," he said. "It's bad policy, it's bad economics, it's bad for hundreds of thousands of ordinary people whose lives will be made difficult for no benefit ? and I think it's about to become profoundly bad politics."

His intervention came as opponents launched nationwide protests against the tax, which will hit 660,000 households with each losing an estimated average of £14 a week.

Crowds gathered in London's Trafalgar Square yesterday to protest against the measure, and simultaneous protests were being held in towns and cities across the UK. One protester, Sue Carter, 58, from Waltham Forest, told the Observer: "I'm a working single parent with a tiny boxroom and now I'm faced with the choice between food, heat or paying the bedroom tax. People have looked after their homes, improved them ? why should they be turfed out?"

Under the scheme, which is introduced tomorrow, people in social housing with one spare bedroom will have their housing benefit cut by 14%, while those with two or more unoccupied rooms will see it slashed by 25%.

Ministers say the tax, which David Cameron calls the "spare room subsidy", will encourage people to move to smaller properties and save around £480m a year from the spiralling housing benefit bill. But critics such as the National Housing Federation (NHF) argue that as well as causing social disruption, the move risks increasing costs to taxpayers because a shortage of smaller social housing properties may force many people to downsize into the more expensive private rented sector.

The federation's warnings came as charities said the combination of benefit cuts and tax rises coming in from this week will amount to a £2.3bn hit on family finances.

Labour said analysis of official figures showed average families would be £891 worse off in the new tax year as the changes ? including those to tax credits and housing benefits ? begin to bite.

Research by the NHF says that while there are currently 180,000 households that are "underoccupying two-bedroom homes", there are far fewer smaller properties in the social housing sector available to move into. Last year only 85,000 one-bedroom homes became available. The federation has calculated that if all those available places were taken up by people moving as a result of the "bedroom tax", the remaining 95,000 households would be faced with the choice of staying put and taking a cut in income, or renting a home in the private sector.

If all 95,000 moved into the private sector, it says the cost of housing benefit would increase by £143m, and by millions more if others among the remaining 480,000 affected chose to rent privately.

As well as the move on spare bedrooms, council tax benefit will be replaced from this week by a new system that will be run by English local authorities but on 10% less funding. Pensioners will be protected under the changes but, as a result, it is feared there will be a bigger burden on poor working-age adults. Restrictions on the uprating of a number of welfare payments will also hit millions of households, homelessness charity Crisis has warned.

Chief executive Leslie Morphy said: "Our poorest households face a bleak April as they struggle to budget for all these cuts coming at once. People are already cutting back on the essentials of food and heating but there is only so much they can do.

"The result will be misery ? cold rooms, longer queues at food banks, broken families, missed rent payments and yet more people facing homelessness ? devastating for those directly affected, but bad for us all."

A Department for Work and Pensions spokesman said: "Our welfare reforms will improve the lives of some of the poorest families in our communities, with universal credit simplifying the complex myriad of benefits and making three million people better off. And by next year, we will have taken two million of the lowest earners out of paying tax altogether."

Crisis argues that homelessness is set to rise dramatically. This winter has already seen a rise of 31% in the numbers of rough sleepers across the country and a 20% rise in people seeking help with homelessness from their local authority in the past two years, according to Crisis.

ChartiesCharities are also concerned that the government-funded network of homelessness advisers in England is to be scrapped. The team of regional advisers and rough sleeper and youth specialists which have provided councils with expert guidance on meeting statutory homelessness duties since 2007 will be disbanded just as the bedroom tax comes in. Also being scrapped are the crisis loans and community care grants which provided a lifeline for people in financial crisis who needed essentials when moving to a new home.

Shadow chancellor Ed Balls said: "This is the week when the whole country will see whose side David Cameron and George Osborne are really on and who is paying the price for their economic failure."

OP posts:
VictorTango · 01/04/2013 20:39

Faster - you have demonstrated your ignorance on this subject more than once. What so many people are trying to tell you is that these people want to work. They are trying to explain that people on benefits are not work shy.

They have explained the benefits trap and the many reasons people end up on benefits.

You are ignoring it all. And you still think they are scroungers.

Does it enter your head at all to stop arguing. To stop being defensive and just to listen to what you are being told?

lottieandmia · 01/04/2013 20:40

' I married a man from a deprived, miserable background who is a self made millionaire. So you can stick that where the sun don't shine.'

Good for him - many people are not so lucky. Why do you feel the need to be so rude?

pollypandemonium · 01/04/2013 20:40

I should add, as a self-employed person, that people simply are NOT spending money at the moment. They will not use somebody skilled to do something unless it's absolutely necessary. There seems to be employment at the high end, if you work for millionaires, but the general average wage earners are keeping their cash under their mattresses.

pollypandemonium · 01/04/2013 20:42

But employment is nothing to do with bedroom tax, the subject of this topic, unless of course you are a self-employed stud-wall removal person.

rhondajean · 01/04/2013 20:42

I came from a deprived background and I won't be a millionaire becaus RI chose a profession which helps people rather than rakes the cash in, but I do have a well paid job and I'm very well educated.

However I am the EXCEPTION from the estate I grew up on. Not the rule. I don't know what made me different but I can accept that most of my neighbours didn't or couldn't seize or make opportunities in the way I did and I can have empathy with the barriers they face in life.

Or, I could just pull the rope ladder up after myself and spit down on them I suppose.

skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 20:43

Lucky, lottie??? Lucky?? Did you read my post?

How is it lucky being dragged up in poverty and then working every hour for twenty years? We lived in a one room for four pissing years when we started out. No bloody HA flat or benefits or free this or that.

It is not I who needs to get real.

VictorTango · 01/04/2013 20:44

Skinny if you have been reading this thread you would know people cannot just move.

They are in subsided council housing (because rents are so high and NMW is too low) and they cannot downsize so cannot move to be a better area with better school.

And even if they were in private housing and could move - you must know the rents in decent school areas are more expensive.

That is why, in the main, the schools in poor areas are rubbish and the schools in better areas are better (as a general rule - and yes yes we all know there are exceptions to every rule)

FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 20:44

I completely agree that serious disability/illness/accident is unlucky.

in my family there has been:

open chest surgery in a child to save life who still has a serious bone condition
brain surgery
early death
suicide
death from asthma attack
alcoholism

so yes there is bad luck in this world - mainly in the developing world where the same people would have died in more pain, sooner and needlessly.

so some people I have loads of sympathy for. but people who are well, really need to sort themselves out.

girliefriend · 01/04/2013 20:45

Skinny last comment to Lottie was completely unnecessary.

It is of course possible for some people to work their way out of poverty. If they are intelligent or have a good business mind or just have a lucky break it is achievable. However for many others who do not have these skills, have no support and for millions of other reasons it is never going to happen.

lottieandmia · 01/04/2013 20:46

Ok, skinny - if you want to believe that every poor person in the UK is able to become a self made millionaire then it seems there is nothing I can say to make you see that that is a pie in the sky philosophy. Dear god.

rhondajean · 01/04/2013 20:46

K actually I do know why some of them couldn't.

Living in overcrowded damp accomodation, ŵith poor diet and nutrition, hardly made for a conducive learning environment for them.

Teachers etc looked at names and streets and that was their chance gone.

People have their hands tied behind their backs in some circumstances before they are born.

And then, there also have to be people in lower paid employment. Not everyone can be a self made millionaire - or money would become so devalued millionaires would actually be paupers.

But seriously, good on everyone who manages it.

skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 20:46

It completely boils my piss when people blither on about luck to people who are self made.

A financially struggling friend of mine said to me recently, " All the well off people I know are risk takers but we're not. We will always be poor because we won;t tale risks"..

Never a truer word spoken.

skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 20:48

*Living in overcrowded damp accomodation, ŵith poor diet and nutrition, hardly made for a conducive learning environment for them.

Teachers etc looked at names and streets and that was their chance gone.

People have their hands tied behind their backs in some circumstances before they are born. *

That would be my DH. Add in alcoholism, DV and single parent family too.

FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 20:49

VT - I am not being defensive - I like a debate.

I don't see any other way than you do things yourself. I think people who are well, waiting for society to do something different for them are wasting their time. wasting their own life.

MiniTheMinx · 01/04/2013 20:50

I'm self employed and I can assure you, that when the poorest in society have even less money to spend on discretionary things it effects my business. It effects every business other than private LL, fuel companies, debt collectors, water companies etc.

What we forget is £14 a week is the difference btw buying a child school shoes or paying the rent. Now if no shoes are sold, then shoe shops fail and so it goes on.

If the poorest have no money it will effect all of us. So those of you who are self made zillionaires, what are you going to do when the economy shrinks further and effects your business?

rhondajean · 01/04/2013 20:50

Would you care to elaborate beyond your DH to the rest of the people he grew up with? Are they also now self made millionaires? Or are the overwhelming majority still struggling against the same issues?

And if so, does that give you a tiny clue as to the reality of social mobility in the uk today?

VictorTango · 01/04/2013 20:50

Well its all very taking risks when its only you it affects. Bit harder when you have dependent children.

But don't let other peoples circumstances affect your twisted view of the poor Skinny.

Dawndonna · 01/04/2013 20:51

And lottie I know more about socioeconomic background than most. I married a man from a deprived, miserable background who is a self made millionaire. So you can stick that where the sun don't shine.
It shows dear.

rhondajean · 01/04/2013 20:51

Good point well made mini.

FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 20:54

Teachers etc looked at names and streets and that was their chance gone.

in significant numbers? teachers, who chose to work in rough schools, wrote off hundreds of thousands of children for no reason other than their name, parents address?

does not sound likely.

VictorTango · 01/04/2013 20:55

Skinny not every poor person can marry their way out of poverty. Sounds like you hooked up with the right guy - shame we can't all be as lucky eh

What is the Tory policy on the poor marrying a millionaire?

Grin Wink

MiniTheMinx · 01/04/2013 20:56

I have never once met a self made person I have liked. I have met people who have inherited money who are lovely, just warm, kind, funny and sensitive people.

VictorTango · 01/04/2013 20:56

This reply has been deleted

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rhondajean · 01/04/2013 20:57

Ts very likely faster. I know lots of young people going through schools just now hindered by their second name or where they are growing up.

I wish it wasn't like that - and it isn't always - but it is in sufficient numbers to add another layer of issues. And then the same goes for employers except even more so.

skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 20:58

Well its all very taking risks when its only you it affects. Bit harder when you have dependent children.

Very true. We only had three when we took the biggest gamble.

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