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Bedroom tax will be costly disaster, says housing chief

999 replies

vivizone · 31/03/2013 06:51

I don't understand how they can implement it. When a council tenant signs the tenancy agreement, if bedroom tax is not mentioned, is it not illegal to implement it at a later date?

I don't see how it is enforceable. Let's say a tenant refuses to pay/can't pay. They then get evicted - wouldn't the council still be obliged to house them after eviction, especially if they have children?

The whole thing is a mess. Why so many changes all at the same time?!

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/mar/30/bedroom-tax-disaster-housing-chief

Cost-cutting policy will push up benefit bill, cause social disruption and create widespread misery, say critics

Ministers came under new fire over benefit cuts last night as the independent body representing 1,200 English housing associations described the controversial bedroom tax as bad policy and bad economics that risks pushing up the £23bn annual housing benefit bill.

David Orr, chief executive of the National Housing Federation, said the tax would harm the lives of hundreds of thousands of people. It comes into force this week alongside a range of other tax and benefit changes.

"The bedroom tax is one of these once-in-a-generation decisions that is wrong in every respect," he said. "It's bad policy, it's bad economics, it's bad for hundreds of thousands of ordinary people whose lives will be made difficult for no benefit ? and I think it's about to become profoundly bad politics."

His intervention came as opponents launched nationwide protests against the tax, which will hit 660,000 households with each losing an estimated average of £14 a week.

Crowds gathered in London's Trafalgar Square yesterday to protest against the measure, and simultaneous protests were being held in towns and cities across the UK. One protester, Sue Carter, 58, from Waltham Forest, told the Observer: "I'm a working single parent with a tiny boxroom and now I'm faced with the choice between food, heat or paying the bedroom tax. People have looked after their homes, improved them ? why should they be turfed out?"

Under the scheme, which is introduced tomorrow, people in social housing with one spare bedroom will have their housing benefit cut by 14%, while those with two or more unoccupied rooms will see it slashed by 25%.

Ministers say the tax, which David Cameron calls the "spare room subsidy", will encourage people to move to smaller properties and save around £480m a year from the spiralling housing benefit bill. But critics such as the National Housing Federation (NHF) argue that as well as causing social disruption, the move risks increasing costs to taxpayers because a shortage of smaller social housing properties may force many people to downsize into the more expensive private rented sector.

The federation's warnings came as charities said the combination of benefit cuts and tax rises coming in from this week will amount to a £2.3bn hit on family finances.

Labour said analysis of official figures showed average families would be £891 worse off in the new tax year as the changes ? including those to tax credits and housing benefits ? begin to bite.

Research by the NHF says that while there are currently 180,000 households that are "underoccupying two-bedroom homes", there are far fewer smaller properties in the social housing sector available to move into. Last year only 85,000 one-bedroom homes became available. The federation has calculated that if all those available places were taken up by people moving as a result of the "bedroom tax", the remaining 95,000 households would be faced with the choice of staying put and taking a cut in income, or renting a home in the private sector.

If all 95,000 moved into the private sector, it says the cost of housing benefit would increase by £143m, and by millions more if others among the remaining 480,000 affected chose to rent privately.

As well as the move on spare bedrooms, council tax benefit will be replaced from this week by a new system that will be run by English local authorities but on 10% less funding. Pensioners will be protected under the changes but, as a result, it is feared there will be a bigger burden on poor working-age adults. Restrictions on the uprating of a number of welfare payments will also hit millions of households, homelessness charity Crisis has warned.

Chief executive Leslie Morphy said: "Our poorest households face a bleak April as they struggle to budget for all these cuts coming at once. People are already cutting back on the essentials of food and heating but there is only so much they can do.

"The result will be misery ? cold rooms, longer queues at food banks, broken families, missed rent payments and yet more people facing homelessness ? devastating for those directly affected, but bad for us all."

A Department for Work and Pensions spokesman said: "Our welfare reforms will improve the lives of some of the poorest families in our communities, with universal credit simplifying the complex myriad of benefits and making three million people better off. And by next year, we will have taken two million of the lowest earners out of paying tax altogether."

Crisis argues that homelessness is set to rise dramatically. This winter has already seen a rise of 31% in the numbers of rough sleepers across the country and a 20% rise in people seeking help with homelessness from their local authority in the past two years, according to Crisis.

ChartiesCharities are also concerned that the government-funded network of homelessness advisers in England is to be scrapped. The team of regional advisers and rough sleeper and youth specialists which have provided councils with expert guidance on meeting statutory homelessness duties since 2007 will be disbanded just as the bedroom tax comes in. Also being scrapped are the crisis loans and community care grants which provided a lifeline for people in financial crisis who needed essentials when moving to a new home.

Shadow chancellor Ed Balls said: "This is the week when the whole country will see whose side David Cameron and George Osborne are really on and who is paying the price for their economic failure."

OP posts:
retrorita · 01/04/2013 14:37

If you are on benefits and you have small children to support. Do you really think jacking in the benefits starting up your own small business(where profit is almost non existent in the first few years) is a sensible suggestion?

FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 14:37

retro - £20ph = £20 per hour

they could start off only working for people with their own equipment and charge less. Say £15 per hour.

my cleaner pays someone to complete tax returns etc. & she charges £10-15 ph.

FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 14:39

we started off talking about a 26 yo non disabled person....

MiniTheMinx · 01/04/2013 14:39

skinnywitch,

I run a business, I know all about hard work cheers Smile

Go read about neo-liberal economic theory, where it came from and its effects, pls, you seem like a bright and industrious person. Harvey is good, a brief history of neo-liberalism.

Welfare didn't exist in Rome, or under feudalism? because it wasn't needed.

Capitalism creates welfare. Again go read your history books, what was the first form of state welfare? education and when did that happen? and why?

FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 14:39

where profit is almost non existent in the first few years

what are your expenses for self employed gardener/cleaner?

retrorita · 01/04/2013 14:40

Tas - I don't think the US system is something we want to aim for Hmm

retrorita · 01/04/2013 14:41

I've just run through the expenses Faster. Read the thread.

MiniTheMinx · 01/04/2013 14:42

Do you really think everyone can go and start their own business?
Yes. If you want it badly enough.

No you can't, it isn't that easy.

Over time we have seen a situation where capital is accumulated into fewer and fewer hands. Finance capital and corporate capital work together to create monopolies.

Look at the hight street, what is taking over? which coffee shops do you have on your hight street?

IneedAsockamnesty · 01/04/2013 14:43

All of this is actually fuck all to do with the under occupancy rule.

We are not talking about if people should receive any benefit or if they should et social housing or if they have a job or not.

All we are trying to talk about is the vulnerable people who will now have to fund more towards housing because they were allocated the house with good reason and don't have the option to downsize because its not available or can't downsize because it would result in a none usable house or a child no longer having decent contact or even going into care due to changes in house size.

MiniTheMinx · 01/04/2013 14:44

high street, sorry typing too fast, need to get back to work Grin

FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 14:46

children going into care because of the HB changes? how does that work?

twofingerstoGideon · 01/04/2013 14:47

Tasmania
Most people who work and NEED a job will move to find one, even if that means moving countries! Kids sharing rooms is not a BAD THING. Whoever complained about one of her kids having insomnia or what not - well, what would that person do, if she HAD to earn her living, and can't afford anything but a 2-bed flat?!? Seriously, someone with that sort of "issue" obviously does not know how the working population just has to cope...

You are aware, I suppose, that many of those affected are 'the working population'?

Dawndonna · 01/04/2013 14:47

Except skinny, it has not taken into account the amount of people going to appeal, those who have died etc.
The Acne and Blisters claim are outright lies by the dm. The forms are over forty pages long and have to be supported by consultants.
My dh was turned down for dla. We had to go to appeal. The judge laughed when she saw him, a pitying laugh. How can a man unable to dress himself, toilet himself, or even get himself a glass of water be passed as fit for work. But he was. We appealed, we won and the dwp were not given live to appeal the decision. This is common.

retrorita · 01/04/2013 14:47

This reply has been deleted

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IneedAsockamnesty · 01/04/2013 14:48

Do you have any idea how they work out the figures for withdrawn claims? I do,that's why people spouting crap like that tend to make me giggle and think they must be a bit silly.

Either way it is nothing to do with a conversation to do with under occupancy.

What's your understanding of the under occupancy rules?

IneedAsockamnesty · 01/04/2013 14:49

Children who have siblings where child protection issues would be caused by sharing.

Several of my clients had larger housing as a goal in care plans.

Dawndonna · 01/04/2013 14:49

massive support

MiniTheMinx · 01/04/2013 14:49

Sockreturningpixie,

I agree but these right wing "up their own bum couldn't happen to me" nupties seem to think that people in need are somehow a different species to themselves. They are too clever, too bright, too hard working to ever be in receipt of any form of welfare.

What do you want, their pitty so that people continue to live lives on welfare? continue to be treated as lacking value under this system that only confers value to workers who create value to employers. Or do you want everyone to have value?

Dawndonna · 01/04/2013 14:50

this too makes interesting reading

retrorita · 01/04/2013 14:51

If nothing else, we have learnt that everyone facing cuts in their HB can just start their own business.

Easy as that.

Someone should let Dave know we've sold the welfare problems.

FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 14:52

sick - do you mean that a child abusing another child in the same family?

FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 14:52

sorry sock. terrible tpying

IneedAsockamnesty · 01/04/2013 14:53

Emmmmm not sure why you have asked me that. I clearly don't buy into any of those views nor do I require any pity

FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 14:54

retro - not saying its would be easy. just better than the alternative.