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Bedroom tax will be costly disaster, says housing chief

999 replies

vivizone · 31/03/2013 06:51

I don't understand how they can implement it. When a council tenant signs the tenancy agreement, if bedroom tax is not mentioned, is it not illegal to implement it at a later date?

I don't see how it is enforceable. Let's say a tenant refuses to pay/can't pay. They then get evicted - wouldn't the council still be obliged to house them after eviction, especially if they have children?

The whole thing is a mess. Why so many changes all at the same time?!

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/mar/30/bedroom-tax-disaster-housing-chief

Cost-cutting policy will push up benefit bill, cause social disruption and create widespread misery, say critics

Ministers came under new fire over benefit cuts last night as the independent body representing 1,200 English housing associations described the controversial bedroom tax as bad policy and bad economics that risks pushing up the £23bn annual housing benefit bill.

David Orr, chief executive of the National Housing Federation, said the tax would harm the lives of hundreds of thousands of people. It comes into force this week alongside a range of other tax and benefit changes.

"The bedroom tax is one of these once-in-a-generation decisions that is wrong in every respect," he said. "It's bad policy, it's bad economics, it's bad for hundreds of thousands of ordinary people whose lives will be made difficult for no benefit ? and I think it's about to become profoundly bad politics."

His intervention came as opponents launched nationwide protests against the tax, which will hit 660,000 households with each losing an estimated average of £14 a week.

Crowds gathered in London's Trafalgar Square yesterday to protest against the measure, and simultaneous protests were being held in towns and cities across the UK. One protester, Sue Carter, 58, from Waltham Forest, told the Observer: "I'm a working single parent with a tiny boxroom and now I'm faced with the choice between food, heat or paying the bedroom tax. People have looked after their homes, improved them ? why should they be turfed out?"

Under the scheme, which is introduced tomorrow, people in social housing with one spare bedroom will have their housing benefit cut by 14%, while those with two or more unoccupied rooms will see it slashed by 25%.

Ministers say the tax, which David Cameron calls the "spare room subsidy", will encourage people to move to smaller properties and save around £480m a year from the spiralling housing benefit bill. But critics such as the National Housing Federation (NHF) argue that as well as causing social disruption, the move risks increasing costs to taxpayers because a shortage of smaller social housing properties may force many people to downsize into the more expensive private rented sector.

The federation's warnings came as charities said the combination of benefit cuts and tax rises coming in from this week will amount to a £2.3bn hit on family finances.

Labour said analysis of official figures showed average families would be £891 worse off in the new tax year as the changes ? including those to tax credits and housing benefits ? begin to bite.

Research by the NHF says that while there are currently 180,000 households that are "underoccupying two-bedroom homes", there are far fewer smaller properties in the social housing sector available to move into. Last year only 85,000 one-bedroom homes became available. The federation has calculated that if all those available places were taken up by people moving as a result of the "bedroom tax", the remaining 95,000 households would be faced with the choice of staying put and taking a cut in income, or renting a home in the private sector.

If all 95,000 moved into the private sector, it says the cost of housing benefit would increase by £143m, and by millions more if others among the remaining 480,000 affected chose to rent privately.

As well as the move on spare bedrooms, council tax benefit will be replaced from this week by a new system that will be run by English local authorities but on 10% less funding. Pensioners will be protected under the changes but, as a result, it is feared there will be a bigger burden on poor working-age adults. Restrictions on the uprating of a number of welfare payments will also hit millions of households, homelessness charity Crisis has warned.

Chief executive Leslie Morphy said: "Our poorest households face a bleak April as they struggle to budget for all these cuts coming at once. People are already cutting back on the essentials of food and heating but there is only so much they can do.

"The result will be misery ? cold rooms, longer queues at food banks, broken families, missed rent payments and yet more people facing homelessness ? devastating for those directly affected, but bad for us all."

A Department for Work and Pensions spokesman said: "Our welfare reforms will improve the lives of some of the poorest families in our communities, with universal credit simplifying the complex myriad of benefits and making three million people better off. And by next year, we will have taken two million of the lowest earners out of paying tax altogether."

Crisis argues that homelessness is set to rise dramatically. This winter has already seen a rise of 31% in the numbers of rough sleepers across the country and a 20% rise in people seeking help with homelessness from their local authority in the past two years, according to Crisis.

ChartiesCharities are also concerned that the government-funded network of homelessness advisers in England is to be scrapped. The team of regional advisers and rough sleeper and youth specialists which have provided councils with expert guidance on meeting statutory homelessness duties since 2007 will be disbanded just as the bedroom tax comes in. Also being scrapped are the crisis loans and community care grants which provided a lifeline for people in financial crisis who needed essentials when moving to a new home.

Shadow chancellor Ed Balls said: "This is the week when the whole country will see whose side David Cameron and George Osborne are really on and who is paying the price for their economic failure."

OP posts:
Tasmania · 01/04/2013 14:14

FasterStronger - my parents are amazed by a 15yo kid who does exactly that (and more) who is a first generation immigrant (together with his parents). Up for all the hard, handy work. Apparently, he is known to cry if he can't find work. I can tell that kid will be fine in later life, but I think some of it is driven by his blighted past.

Some seem let their past taint them really badly, while others use it as a fuel to do well once given a chance. Often, the former didn't suffer from much, but the latter had to struggle through wars, etc.

MiniTheMinx · 01/04/2013 14:15

Yes Xenia because those who work increasingly have less and less...... rooms, money, food, holidays, savings........because wages have been stagnating for the last 30 years whilst productivity doubled.

skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 14:15

Maggie said "There is now no such thing as society, just individuals" and she was right, by implementing neo-liberal economic policies she succeeded in changing the way people think.

No. She didn't. Why do so many people get that quote wrong? This is the full context of what she says :

*And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations, because there is no such thing as an entitlement unless someone has first met an obligation"

retrorita · 01/04/2013 14:17

Faster

So your nan pays him £20 for cutting grass? Because round here, it's £5 to cut the grass.

So I guess she needs more thna grass cutting done. You need to clarify: how many hours pay does £20 cover? How much an hour is that? After tax and NI?

And I presume you mean a FT gardener with their own business? So this person needs to be able to fill in tax return forms etc.

And they would presumably need a van to transport the equipment (petrol, car tax MOT, driving licence) Unless they were lucky enough to find a very big street that all needed their gardens doing so he could walk back and forth between the gardens? And they would need to buy the equipment unless someone was providing it for free? For them to use all day, everyday on other peoples property as well.

And then what happens in the winter? Gardening is seasonal. And you can't just hop on and off benefits as you please. So how does this person earn money in winter?

You can't just wave £20 in someones face and say 'now you don't need to claim benefits'.

Tasmania · 01/04/2013 14:18

Dawndonna - have you read my long post to you?

First you compare the UK to Germany, thinking something is wrong with the UK if we are heading to the kind of recession Germany isn't getting into. Then, if people think it is right to do the kind of things Germany did to get into the position they are in now (austerity measures, i.e. cutting benefits, etc.)... all you come up with is the "you're all being mean and nasty" comment?

skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 14:19

retrorita

So right. Why try and help yourself indeed when the taxpayer can do it all for you?

It is precisely your defeatist attitude that is so depressingly familiar to those of us who HAVE dragged ourselves up by our bootstraps.

Tasmania · 01/04/2013 14:21

retrorita - gardening in the summer, handiwork in winter. If people on lower salaries cannot pay rent, etc. then the government should really start doing rent control (I am all for that!). It's obviously better for people to work and pay a low rent than for people to do nothing, and get accommodation for free.

Dawndonna · 01/04/2013 14:21

skinny I own my house. It doesn't affect me.

Tas You nor anyone else can tell how an upset in life is going to affect somebody, so your judgement of 'the former didn't suffer from much' is invalid.

Skinny Is that why she threw all the mentally ill people onto the streets without support?

MiniTheMinx · 01/04/2013 14:22

skinnywitch and Tasmania,

you are not discussing economics or politics instead you are here to gloat and patronise and make out that your "success" is just down to being somehow superior.

I suspect that the miners thought they were superior in the 30/40s when they earned twice what farm labourers earned in Sussex. In Sussex people thought the miners were driving cars. But look what happened to them.

retrorita · 01/04/2013 14:22

It's not deafeastist, its reality.

Not your reality. So of course you can't see it. What with the blinkers on and that.

Tasmania · 01/04/2013 14:23

You nor anyone else can tell how an upset in life is going to affect somebody.

Well, I am sorry but I'd say some people should toughen up a bit. If things affect you so easily, you've obviously been mollycoddled a bit.

retrorita · 01/04/2013 14:25

Fucking handiwork in winter!!!!

OMFG!!

So you would pay someone to come and bash up your house who wasn't a skilled carpenter?

And you think Gardening in summer and handiwork ( Confused )in winter is a reliable enough employment for someone not trained in either?

Do you think you could support a family, put food on the table, that way?

Am I talking to 15 year olds here or grown adults?

skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 14:28

My cleaner is paid £10 an hour. She has a waiting list. She turns down two or three people a week and takes ironing home too. She is slick, professional and very thorough.

She is doing so well she is now employing someone.

She left school with nothing.

retrorita · 01/04/2013 14:29

I think handiwork in winter will make me chuckle for the rest of the day.

Tasmania · 01/04/2013 14:29

MiniTheMinx

There is a very well-known biology paper that starts with the following:

"I would be willing to wager that if an average citizen from Athens of 1000 BC were to appear suddenly among us, he or she would be among the brightest and most intellectually alive of our colleagues and companions."

This whole thread just makes me think that might be true. No, we are not superior. The people long time ago were - but they sort of had to learn and work for a living...

skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 14:29

Do you think you could support a family, put food on the table, that way?

God yes. I know several gardeners who have very good lifestyles.

But hey, far better not to take the risk when Joe Taxpayer will fund you, eh?

MiniTheMinx · 01/04/2013 14:30

And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations, because there is no such thing as an entitlement unless someone has first met an obligation"

Neo-liberal ideology, pure and simple. And now we have a situation where working class people are pitted against each other like dogs. Compete for jobs, compete for the crumbs from the table of our pay masters, that's if we are lucky enough for them to invest in job creation.

Your position in life relies not upon your ingenuity but upon your competitive docility. Whether you are prepared to sell your neighbours up the river and sell your labour always for less than the value it creates.

If the water is up over the heads of the poor, trust me, it will be washing round your knees sometime soon.

skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 14:31

Laughing even harder now that those who don't choose to rely on the state are somehow superior Shock

skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 14:32

What bollocks are you spouting minitheminx? Grin
And it won't be washing around my knees, thank you, I've worked damn hard to ensure that doesn't happen.

retrorita · 01/04/2013 14:33

Do they have a driving licence skinny?
A van?
Equipment?
Car tax?
MOT?
The ability to register a business?
The ability to fill in tax returns?

Do you really think everyone can go and start their own business?

MiniTheMinx · 01/04/2013 14:34

Tasmania

I agree, I am very interested in history.

I am also very interested in economic history and if you read anything other than the spiel we are taught in schools, you will quickly realise that this economic system actually creates welfare need. It takes the means of producing wealth out of the hands of working people and concentrates it into the hands of fewer and fewer people.

Think about it, why do we have a welfare state. I would suggest going back to the history books.

Dawndonna · 01/04/2013 14:35

You really aren't very pleasant Tasmania.
You don't have any idea what people go through, but let's give you an example.
I am one very tough cookie. I am considering taking medication for anxiety. I am not mollycoddled. I do however look after a dh who is unable to walk, is in constant pain and needs lifting in the night. The government took away our respite care so I cannot work. I also look after three children with ASDs. I work on average an eighteen hour day and my sleep is broken every single night, either by a young adult that needs turning due to psoriasis and other problems, a young adult whose processing skills have let them down so that they are having a panic, or a man who needs the lavatory.
We were both lecturers Tasmania . I'd like to toughen up a bit more, but it would probably involve being banned from here on a permanent basis because answering all the assholes would involve being extraordinarily rude and aggressive, although most importantly, right.

Tasmania · 01/04/2013 14:35

retrorita - in other countries, that's what they do, and yes, they can support a family. And as skinny showed, her cleaner can do it, so why not others?!? In the US, there are workers who do gardening, pool cleaning, dog poo picking... you name it! And no one - you included - should put up their noses at such jobs. I admire the above people for making something out of their lives!!!

Do you think people are really that the UK population has really reached that level of stupidness that they can't even do basic things??

Also - skilled carpenter in the UK... he/she had to start somewhere, too - sometimes by doing things for friends and family prior to being "skilled"!

JustinBsMum · 01/04/2013 14:37

The health/ welfare/ benefits bill is unsustainable - why can't people get that.

Before we are finished pensioners, everyone will be worse off, the wealthy will be taxed more (including pensioners as they are such a huge part of the population and growing), the benefit receivers will get less. We might even have to pay for some health care.

Get real folks.

skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 14:37

Do you really think everyone can go and start their own business?

Yes. If you want it badly enough.