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Bedroom tax will be costly disaster, says housing chief

999 replies

vivizone · 31/03/2013 06:51

I don't understand how they can implement it. When a council tenant signs the tenancy agreement, if bedroom tax is not mentioned, is it not illegal to implement it at a later date?

I don't see how it is enforceable. Let's say a tenant refuses to pay/can't pay. They then get evicted - wouldn't the council still be obliged to house them after eviction, especially if they have children?

The whole thing is a mess. Why so many changes all at the same time?!

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/mar/30/bedroom-tax-disaster-housing-chief

Cost-cutting policy will push up benefit bill, cause social disruption and create widespread misery, say critics

Ministers came under new fire over benefit cuts last night as the independent body representing 1,200 English housing associations described the controversial bedroom tax as bad policy and bad economics that risks pushing up the £23bn annual housing benefit bill.

David Orr, chief executive of the National Housing Federation, said the tax would harm the lives of hundreds of thousands of people. It comes into force this week alongside a range of other tax and benefit changes.

"The bedroom tax is one of these once-in-a-generation decisions that is wrong in every respect," he said. "It's bad policy, it's bad economics, it's bad for hundreds of thousands of ordinary people whose lives will be made difficult for no benefit ? and I think it's about to become profoundly bad politics."

His intervention came as opponents launched nationwide protests against the tax, which will hit 660,000 households with each losing an estimated average of £14 a week.

Crowds gathered in London's Trafalgar Square yesterday to protest against the measure, and simultaneous protests were being held in towns and cities across the UK. One protester, Sue Carter, 58, from Waltham Forest, told the Observer: "I'm a working single parent with a tiny boxroom and now I'm faced with the choice between food, heat or paying the bedroom tax. People have looked after their homes, improved them ? why should they be turfed out?"

Under the scheme, which is introduced tomorrow, people in social housing with one spare bedroom will have their housing benefit cut by 14%, while those with two or more unoccupied rooms will see it slashed by 25%.

Ministers say the tax, which David Cameron calls the "spare room subsidy", will encourage people to move to smaller properties and save around £480m a year from the spiralling housing benefit bill. But critics such as the National Housing Federation (NHF) argue that as well as causing social disruption, the move risks increasing costs to taxpayers because a shortage of smaller social housing properties may force many people to downsize into the more expensive private rented sector.

The federation's warnings came as charities said the combination of benefit cuts and tax rises coming in from this week will amount to a £2.3bn hit on family finances.

Labour said analysis of official figures showed average families would be £891 worse off in the new tax year as the changes ? including those to tax credits and housing benefits ? begin to bite.

Research by the NHF says that while there are currently 180,000 households that are "underoccupying two-bedroom homes", there are far fewer smaller properties in the social housing sector available to move into. Last year only 85,000 one-bedroom homes became available. The federation has calculated that if all those available places were taken up by people moving as a result of the "bedroom tax", the remaining 95,000 households would be faced with the choice of staying put and taking a cut in income, or renting a home in the private sector.

If all 95,000 moved into the private sector, it says the cost of housing benefit would increase by £143m, and by millions more if others among the remaining 480,000 affected chose to rent privately.

As well as the move on spare bedrooms, council tax benefit will be replaced from this week by a new system that will be run by English local authorities but on 10% less funding. Pensioners will be protected under the changes but, as a result, it is feared there will be a bigger burden on poor working-age adults. Restrictions on the uprating of a number of welfare payments will also hit millions of households, homelessness charity Crisis has warned.

Chief executive Leslie Morphy said: "Our poorest households face a bleak April as they struggle to budget for all these cuts coming at once. People are already cutting back on the essentials of food and heating but there is only so much they can do.

"The result will be misery ? cold rooms, longer queues at food banks, broken families, missed rent payments and yet more people facing homelessness ? devastating for those directly affected, but bad for us all."

A Department for Work and Pensions spokesman said: "Our welfare reforms will improve the lives of some of the poorest families in our communities, with universal credit simplifying the complex myriad of benefits and making three million people better off. And by next year, we will have taken two million of the lowest earners out of paying tax altogether."

Crisis argues that homelessness is set to rise dramatically. This winter has already seen a rise of 31% in the numbers of rough sleepers across the country and a 20% rise in people seeking help with homelessness from their local authority in the past two years, according to Crisis.

ChartiesCharities are also concerned that the government-funded network of homelessness advisers in England is to be scrapped. The team of regional advisers and rough sleeper and youth specialists which have provided councils with expert guidance on meeting statutory homelessness duties since 2007 will be disbanded just as the bedroom tax comes in. Also being scrapped are the crisis loans and community care grants which provided a lifeline for people in financial crisis who needed essentials when moving to a new home.

Shadow chancellor Ed Balls said: "This is the week when the whole country will see whose side David Cameron and George Osborne are really on and who is paying the price for their economic failure."

OP posts:
IneedAsockamnesty · 01/04/2013 14:55

Faster, no, I mean where one child's difficulties or issues could cause a problem for a child forced to share.

That could be health problems or anything.

retrorita · 01/04/2013 14:56

Its not even a fucking possibility for most people Faster. You make it sound as if there is a choice.

This is worse than listening to IDS claim he can off £53 a week or Gregg telling us his boys share.

VestaCurry · 01/04/2013 14:58

'Some people should toughen up a bit' says Tasmania Hmm.

I'll tell that to a friend who is dying of motor neurone disease. The stress of battling for benefits (having worked for 30 years and been a higher rate tax layer for 25 of them) will probably push her into an early grave. I have come to the conclusion that the government is banking on this. It's horrific.

FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 14:59

sock - I agree with you people with seriously disabilities are getting treated badly. but I don't think they will get a better deal until we move away from the benefits culture created in the last decade or so.

welfare needs focussing on a smaller number of people. until then I don't think there will be a public will for the welfare system itself.

retrorita · 01/04/2013 15:03

There is a public will for a welfare state.

You only to have at the outrage and concern these changes are causing.

PeneloPeePitstop · 01/04/2013 15:12

I marched in London on Saturday. Made it onto channel 4 news an' all... But I digress.

The reason I marched is because despite us getting a reprieve two weeks ago via the severely disabled child criteria (we don't actually have a spare room, they have one each for medical reasons) and being able to sleep at night for the first time in nearly a year, my disabled children will grow up to be disabled adults.

Now, despite the Minister Against Disabled People asserting that disabilities heal nowadays my kids will not 'heal'. It's permanent and incurable

When they become adults the protection is removed and all kinds of complexities come into play.

Also I know several disabled adults affected by this who could become homeless. They couldn't actually get out and march so I did it for them, and I did it for my kids' futures, despite the difficulties presented travelling to London with two kids in wheelchairs.

Oh, and if I ever find out Moondog has had contact with my children in a professional capacity I will be ensuring it doesn't happen again. That's the problem with the anonymity aspect here, I can't protect my kids from attitudes like that, sadly.

FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 15:13

I don't see outrange and concern.

yougov.co.uk/news/2012/01/21/benefits-cap-proposal/

◦36% of the British public say that the amount of benefits a family can receive should be capped at under £20,000
◦19% say that £26,000 is an acceptable cap
â—¦9% say that there should be no limit

(its a year old but I cannot find any recent yougov reports on benefits but I guess some will be out in the next few weeks and months)

Dawndonna · 01/04/2013 15:15

and every time they will support the government.
What is interesting about these surveys of the Great British Public is, when pinned down with 'this will have a significant impact on the lives of children, the disabled, carers, they withdraw their initial answers. I have things to do but will look out some figures later.

CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs · 01/04/2013 15:19

Yeah, cos one £20 job for an hour a month is a regular job, isn't it?!

And where does the person on benefits find the money to set themselves up as a gardener?

They would need (under UC rules that are coming soon...) to be earning a MINIMUM of 35hrs @ £6.19 in order to not receive SANCTIONS.

And 35 X £6.19 = £216.65 BEFORE TAX & NI.

If this person has a family, how is that meant to cover, say, £130 / wk rent and all their bills? And that £130 is the weekly rent for a 2-bed HA house around here. A private rented one would be £160+ a week. What if they are a single parent? You then need to add in childcare costs too...

It's just not as clear cut as all that.

Nobody is going to currently take unsafe work, like a single gardening job, to get off benefits, as the time it takes to sort out benefits if that insecure job ends causes them to lose their homes. And also, how are they meant to afford to advertise as a new gardening service when their JSA is just £71 a week?!

I can't see how you think that someone could just come and do a gardening job for £20 here and there - unless they had found enough work for every week of every month, that certainly isn't enough to live on.

On top of that, you aren't allowed to work cash in hand without declaring it to the DWP, or you are committing benefit fraud. And they only allow you to keep £20 a week MAXIMUM, then you lose the rest from your benefits.

If you lose the rest in benefits, then any work you do that pays you anything over that £20 a week you are doing for FREE.

Would you all work for free?!

And before you say "oh but they get their housing paid for, and an allowance for food and clothing", look up the dictionary definition of 'indentured slavery'.

pollypandemonium · 01/04/2013 15:23

It's a feeble excuse to bash the poor (again) in the hope that the fantasy tory dream will come true where only the truly decent hardworking people work 3 jobs and leave their kids home alone and say 'have a nice day' at the end of it. All others are scum and scroungers of course.

Bedroom tax is nasty because it ONLY affects the poorest that are getting housing benefit. It won't free up housing at all. Fact is there are no jobs, wages haven't gone up in decades and people need help to keep their spirits up, not be forced into further destitution than they already are.

This is a repeat of the early 1980s when government believed that closing down massive nationalised industries (coal etc) would be a career opportunity rather than the reality, which was a life condemned to benefits. Tebbit told them to get on their bikes but the reality is there IS NO WORK and all they will get is a payday loan. And now the tories are closing in on the loan sharks there will be no hope at all.

If there are not enough council properties I think they should be means tested. It's absurd that a £100k per year barrister can live in a £100 a week flat in central London just because they were lucky on the list years before. And council property should NEVER be sold. Charge more rent, but don't sell them for people to make a profit. I don't think you should move people out but they should have to pay market rents if they can afford to.

PeneloPeePitstop · 01/04/2013 15:24

Do some people not realise that life happens whilst you're concentrating on making plans?

As a former higher rate taxpayer, former home owner now in social housing on benefits?

I didn't actually choose any of this. And if you think mortgage payment protection insurance or indeed any insurance could have prevented this you're deeply deluded.

My educational level is also not low.

I don't actually fit any 'benefit claimant mould' that many of you have created.

I'm wondering if by braying about lifestyle choices you think it offers you some protection from bad things happening to you?

Bad things happen to 'good' people too. Even strivers.

FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 15:25

I wasn't suggesting 1 hour work per week.... I was thinking 30+ hours. most people will want 3+ hours work in one ago. 2 clients per day.

the "indentured slavery" thing is just rubbish of the lowest order.

anyway "Budget makes no difference"
research.yougov.co.uk/news/2013/03/22/budget-makes-no-difference-poll/

more people still trust the tories to run the country than labour.

retrorita · 01/04/2013 15:26

Couthy you explain it a lot better than me. But they are not listening. I think some people think you just turn up at the job centre and hold your hand out.

Some people clearly don't know how long it takes to receive benefits and what happens is you have been deemed to have willingly given up work (esp under UC)

The thought that a drop in hb is easily solved by taking up handiwork for winter is beyond ridiculous.

VestaCurry · 01/04/2013 15:28

Exactly Penelo.

IneedAsockamnesty · 01/04/2013 15:28

Does anyone remember the wording of that survey?

It was laughable and worded so you practically had to agree

CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs · 01/04/2013 15:29

Is gardening and handiwork going to be enough to provide jobs for the millions that are unemployed? How many gardeners and handiworkers does one town need?

Especially as there are only something like XX,000 available jobs and YY,000,000 people unemployed...

(I can't remember the exact figures but they are on any number if similar threads - maybe someone could find those figures for me...)

Plus, not every unemployed person with no qualifications happens to be 'good with their hands' or other such stupid platitudes.

Sometimes, a person just DOESN'T have any skills to offer, despite turning up at school every day, despite working as hard as THEIR ability allowed. They STILL don't have anything specific that will help them find a job.

What about these people?

Maybe they take a NMW cleaning job, and try their best, but get made redundant when their employer shuts. Where do they go if no cleaning jobs are available, and got every other job they are up against 199 others that HAVE qualifications, that HAVE experience for that type of job, that HAVE specific skills to offer?!

skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 15:31

Not many of you did march, though, it was a pretty poor show to be honest.

retrorita · 01/04/2013 15:32

Even if they take a NMW job, they will probably need HB and be affected by these changes.

skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 15:33

I get sick of the , " There are no jobs" constant bleat on here.

Ther ARE jobs. Yes, you may have to travel, yes, they may not be your dream job but THERE ARE BLOODY JOBS!!!!!!

FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 15:34

And also, how are they meant to afford to advertise as a new gardening service when their JSA is just £71 a week?!

you can get 250 business cards printed for £3.50

I am not saying everyone can help themselves but we seem very far away from this being the default for people without a disability.

PeneloPeePitstop · 01/04/2013 15:36

Have you any idea of the challenges of even getting to the marches with some disabilities?

Clearly not. You keep swallowing the rhetoric. Lets hope one day you're not choked by self same rhetoric, that you or a close family member doesn't become so sick or disabled that you lose everything.

skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 15:37

Agree faster, very well put.

It seems to me that the easier it has been for people to rely on the state to provide everything for them, the less likely they have become to attempt to help themselves.

Can people not see that part of the Tory ideology is to encourage people to help themselves by reinstating the Welfare State in it's founding principles?

pollypandemonium · 01/04/2013 15:37

skinny there are 400,000 jobs available and 2.8M unemployed ready-to-work jobseekers. Sorry you are wrong.

www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/feb/06/unemployment-vacancies-ratio

retrorita · 01/04/2013 15:38

There are no FT jobs with permanent contracts skinny.

PT jobs/zero hours contracts are no good to people on benefits.

You can't come off benefits to take a temp position as it takes too long to set benefits up again, during which period you and your dc are starving and made homeless because you have no money coming in.

jollygoose · 01/04/2013 15:38

whilst this does not affect me I feel very sorry for people who have spent a lot of money decorating homes and perhaps haing expensive fixtures and fittings and also possibly a lot of time and effort in the garden, where are they supposed to go?

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