A fourteen year old girl has been killed...

[JustGiveMeFiveMinutes]

...mauled to death by four dogs.

RIP

I can only speak for my staffy. She is utterly soft. But I had her from a puppy and I trained her. She is asleep on the sofa on top of my 8 year old.

Maybe if someone else had her, didn't exercise her, didn't feed her properly, kicked her etc she would be a very different dog. I don't know.

I think dogs are just like people. There may be very few who are just innately evil and dangerous, like that from birth. But the majority who are dangerous are a product of their environment and how they were raised.

Whenever dogs are discussed [on here and elsewhere], everyone is a responsible dog owner, doesn't encourage aggression and never leaves their dogs poo on the ground.

In reality I have to step over shit wherever I go, from London streets and parks to the tiny village some of my family live in and inbetween. But no one ever admits to it.

Everyones dogs are 'soft and wouldn't hurt a fly' yet thousands of people a year are bitten by dogs.

I don't believe that all that dog crap and dogs biting people is solely down to the 'feckless' type of owners dogs, some folk like that definitely are bad owners and encourage aggression etc, but similarly some people like that are sensible with their pets.

They are animals, sometimes animals revert from the unnatural domestication humans put on them, back to their natural state, even for a short time.

I don't believe that 'good ownership' is enough to stop that happening in every circumstance.

nancy66 yes, loooads of staffies where I live, except they aren't staffs, they are pitbulls. Some of them are nice enough dogs, but I wouldn't want them around my child [or any other dog if Im honest]

more people in the UK are bitten by golden retrievers than any other breed. Where are the calls on this thread for golden retrievers to be banned under the dangerous dogs act? Or does it only count if the dog kills someone.

yes, family pet dogs doo bite for various reasons. But the majority of them are not the rottweillers and staffies that people are calling to be banned here, the majority of them are the golden retrievers that are held up as the ideal family pet. And in truth they probably are. And we don't know what causes all the dog bites in this country every year. the majority will not be unprovoked attacks, for a dog to turn and attack without reason is extremely rare.

But if you look at the deaths over the past few years none of those dogs were the victim's beloved and soft-as-butter family pet. Not one.

And the numbers are tiny - just seven deaths in the past eight years.

Now I don't remember names, but I do vaguely remember circs - there was that little girl in liverpool killed by the uncle's illegally owned and known-to-be agressive pitbul. There was the baby killed above a pub somewhere by two rottweillers kept as guard dogs. another two year old killed by a rottweiller in her cousin's garden (rottweiller was not allowed in the house). The baby killed by her grandmother's staffy and JRT which she kept as guard dogs. These are not your average dogs who lie on your bed every night these were dogs already known for and in some cases kept for their agression.

It is all very well to talk about this and that breed but you have to look at the circumstances, because otherwise it is just far too simplistic.

And if we start banning breeds i.e. staffies/rottweillers what do people propose? that all the staffies/rottweillers in the country be rounded up and destroyed? regardless of their temperament? Take away beloved family pets who have never and would never hurt anyone and destroy them to satisfy the need to be seen to be doing something?

I agree that there are a lot of irresponsible dog owners out there and I agree that the penalties if your dog attacks someone should be much much harsher.

I also think that any death by any means is tragic.

But more children are killed by cars and parents and drugs every year than that have been killed by dogs over the past eight years. And yet we don't hear the hysteria about that. Why not? Perhaps because it's just easier to label dogs as being all evil even though the number of deaths from dog attacks is neglidgeable.

but I wouldn't want them around my child [or any other dog if Im honest

I meant I wouldn't want any other dog around my child, not that I wouldn't want pitbulls around any other dog!

that is entirely irational though amber.

Amber I don't get your point. Are you saying the people who post here about being responsible dog owners are lying or that we don't recognise there are lots of irresponsible owners out there?

I encounter the same piles of shit as you do. That's why I pick up after my dog.

There are loads of people with dogs who should not be allowed to look after any animal - or child. But they often have loads of both. It is terrifying.

I hate, hate, hate how people use the Martin Niemoller speech in these arguments. I honestly believe that some people do not care that an innocent fourteen year old has died.

If you really honestly think that people here don't care that a child has died. There is something very wrong with you.

But I think we are entitled to discuss a view that because a child has died we must round up our family pets and have them killed too.

Spero

Some posters have completely glossed over this girl's death. They much prefer to talk about their soppy staffies.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with me I believe I have my priorities right.

"Please don't wilfully misunderstand what I'm saying. It demonstrates the difference between a responsible owner with a genuine love for the breed they have and a knowledge of traits that breed may have that need careful training and the dozey shitheads who just like something big with teeth on the end of a lead."

All dogs need careful training. But I just find it bizarre that anyone would want to keep a breed that has "characteristics that need extra careful training. Any dog can bite. Any dog could attack. But some breeds have specific characteristics that make it more likely. Why would anyone want to keep one of those?

And for the record, I wouldn't support euthanasia of sbt and similar breeds. I would however ban them from being bred. That may be a start to solving this terrible problem we have.

So because I talk about my staffy being soft, that means I don't feel sick and horrified about how Jade died?

Have a word with yourself and don't make offensive assumptions about others.

You are right seeker. I am a dog lover. I have a four year old dog that has never growled. Not once! She, like any dog, is capable of being aggressive but she is a safer bet that the dogs we encounter on walks that strain at the lease and growl, bark and snarl at her.

Seeker - my dog is a staffy, known for being dog aggressive. But also known for a great temperament and one of few breeds recommended by Kennel Club around children.

So I dealt with dog aggression by lots of early socialisation. And have been rewarded with a loyal, loving, non aggressive dog who is enhancing my daughter's childhood and who brings great joy and companionship to me.

"Seeker - my dog is a staffy, known for being dog aggressive. But also known for a great temperament and one of few breeds recommended by Kennel Club around children."

I thought that was a myth? Like the "nanny dog" thing?

If you support these breeds spero you are part of the problem, like Americans, who may be peace loving but who argue against the banning of firearms are also part of the US gun problem.

Therefore, why don't you have a word with yourself

Well if it is a myth it was one being widely spread at the Earls Court dog show I went to when considering getting a dog. Best check directly with Kennel Club. I thought I had read it on official websites.

Or maybe I have gone completely mad. But all I have seen with my dog, how she is with my child and any other child she meets supports that view. As another poster said, all she wants to do is roll over and have her tummy tickled.

Some cunt on my FB is using a picture of Jade to promote his pro dog agenda.

Cunt.

that is entirely irational though amber

Is it? They can't avoid them in day to day life, but I choose not to have one and don't particularly want to spend time with them.

I have been bitten by 2 dogs in the past [not badly] my son has been bitten when he was about 4 yrs old. not provoked, a dog was walking towards us with its owner and as we got closer it nipped my son on the face, he hadn't done anything to provoke it, he wasn't shrieking or waving his arms around, he was just walking along holding my hand.

Both times I was bitten the owner was present, this was in the street. Once when I was a child it was my fault apparently because I was skipping along and the dog 'thought I was running and wanted to chase me' I was about 7-8

2nd time I was an adult and a dog ran at me in the park growling and jumped at me, I put my arm across my chest in defence and it bit me.

So as much as I know of dogs I consider 'nice' that are owned by friends, Id rather avoid them 'socially'!

Don't see how that is irrational, I consider it a sensible choice.

Are you saying the people who post here about being responsible dog owners are lying or that we don't recognise there are lots of irresponsible owners out there?

As I said, its not just here, but if everyone was as good as they say they were there would be less dog poo on the ground. no one ever admits to leaving it there do they? but Ive seen people do it! and they walk away looking like butter wouldn't melt.

I think we do recognise there are lots of irresponsible owners out there, but its always 'someone else'

I don't support 'breeds'. I don't give a shit about 'breeds'. Just a way to breed weakness and disease for human vanity.

I care about responsible dog ownership. Anyone who thinks dogs are the problem is missing the point. There has to be a way to stop these idiots who can't care for animals.

I don't think the problem is the breeds per se.

More that this woman choose to have 4/5 dogs from big, powerful breeds, in a small terraced house, where they were probably left crated half the time, under exercised and poorly trained (if at all).

Similar is happening all over the place with these husky and malamute times that are fashionable now - big, powerful dogs that need masses of exercise being overbred and then sold on Facebook to idiots in inner city flats.

but Ive seen people do it!

Actually, Ive seen dogs do it! sorry

Amber - but it is someone else. I pickup poo, spay, microchip etc, etc. so do lots of owners. I don't see why we should be damned because of the idiots. Why is the answer 'ban dogs' instead of properly enforcing responsible dog ownership? My life would be much poorer without my dog. I don't want to lose her.

wannaBe, sorry but this

more people in the UK are bitten by golden retrievers than any other breed. Where are the calls on this thread for golden retrievers to be banned under the dangerous dogs act? Or does it only count if the dog kills someone

Is ridiculous. Are you trying to say it's somehow hypocritical to think dogs killing people is worse than biting.

Spero

Don't you get it? You'll never be able to stop the idiots. If the dogs are available they'll have them. Therefore stop these dogs from being bred.