I don't know one single reason why Scotland would want to quit the UK

[ClementineKelandra]

I'm genuinely interested in the reasons why Scotland want to break away from the UK. I'm sure there must be many good ones but I jyst can't see any atm.

Well the two governments could even come to an agreement and share it with the population pre-referendum. But that would not tell us what the private sector would do.

You don't have a lot of faith in the Scottish people then, do you moopoint?
I've already said upthread I will look at the pros and cons and decide accordingly. I'm 50/50 at the moment, but there's a couple of years to go.
But yeah, just shove on Braveheart and we'll all go to the polls in our kilts with our faces painted blue.
Because none of is capable of making a decision based on what is best for our country unless we're brainwashed by a crap movie.

Genuine question out of curiousity - what would happen to the Scottish Banks on independence, they can issue banknotes etc but RBS is owned by the UK gov't. HBOS partially so. Would Scotland get a share in the ownership? Clydesdale is owned by National Australia Bank Group.

(Note - Welsh person living in England so no strong views either way )

that's true, grovel. i imagine that a lot of private companies are coming up with an exit plan, should they need it. but that's actually only sensible risk management. it doesn't mean that they have to go, just that in the event that they want to, they have a plan in place. again, though, without some sense of the financials, this is all just make-believe anyway.

I don't know Chaz, it's one of the questions I would need answered before I vote
Which is why I'm still undecided as are many, many Scots.

Aitch I am entitled to my point of view and there's nothing wrong in wanting independence for sentimental reasons. i haven't said anything like 'you silly scots, you can't possibly understand this, you're so hysterical and emotional.' That is your (incorrect in my eyes) interpretation

Aitch, you're right in thinking that anyone writing about Scottish Independence is going to put their own slant on things. I guess the answer is to read a lot of different sources, including the White Paper when it comes out next year, and make up your own mind. At least with yesscotland.net you know what their agenda is!

thanks for the lnk Furoshika - it seems that it's not me that's gaslighting

"I don't think many people will vote independence unless Braveheart is on tv just before voting day and everyone turns into "FREEDOOOM!!" Mode"

That's nice. Actually, this sort of stupid remark makes people vote "Yes" out of spite.

bunty we also live south of the border - due to DH job and there doesnt seem to be any way to move back to Scotland.

So although 'we' dont get a vote, I still have family and friends up there who do.

Doenst make our opinions/heritage less valid.

" mirry2 Wed 14-Nov-12 14:44:20
It seems to me that people wanting independence really want it for sentimental reasons and it is an anti England stance rather than a pro Scotland one. In some ways I hope Scotland gets its independence so that its people can feel they've put 2 fingers up to Westminster and England (Im leaving Wales out as I have never detected an anti Wales attitude) but I am concerned that it will damage Scottish/English relations at every level. I do beleive that most people in England are indifferent about Scots independence."

well i guess i think your opinion, however firmly-held, is patronising nonsense. and if anything is going to damage Scottish/English relations at every level, it's going to be rubbish like that. so the English basically don't care but we're just desperate to put our two fingers up to you? so it's independence as a form of attention-seeking? can't you see how patronising that is?

LOL 'it seems to me that it's not gaslighting'. of COURSE it does.
(actually i did write 'practically gaslighting' but let's not waste time with accuracies. not wanting to get too into this as it's not hugely relevant but as it happens, the response 'why are you so hysterical etc, i'm not' is classic gaslighting behaviour).

open your eyes aich, open your eyes. and stop gaslighting me

I'm interested in the answer to Chaz's bank question too - anyone?

arf.

so back to the point, then.

do you really think that there's nothing wrong in voting yes to independence for sentimental reasons? (i'd say that would be unimaginably stupid, for example).

Of course there's nothing wrong with voting for independence for sentimental reasons - provided that you always wear a kilt and restrict to diet to shortbread from a tartan tin.

It isn't that I don't have faith in the Scottish people, I don't have faith in Alex salmond or any other politician to be honest.

My Braveheart comment was meant to be light hearted, that's why I crossed it out.

And the notion of people voting yes out of spite to a Braveheart comment on mumsnet is ridiculous

Oh, and so Greece and Spain are rioting (apparently because that's what happens to non-UK members of the EU ), so should we take away their ability to govern themselves because they've shown they can't handle it?

Sorry, I know the thread has moved on a lot, but I was thinking about it while loading the dishwasher and suddenly remembered that comment.

Moo, politicians are a necessary evil - but there are thousands of Scots in public service struggling to do as good a job as possible. I have faith in them.

Whichever way the vote goes I just hope it's a stonking great majority

But I was being lighthearted too, moopoint!

"And the notion of people voting yes out of spite to a Braveheart comment on mumsnet is ridiculous"

And the notion of people voting yes because they watched Braveheart that day is also ridiculous, no?

TooImmature, this is what I keep saying - I find it so insulting that the debate is not about whether Independence is good for Scotland or not, but whether Scotland "deserves" to be a country or not.

Chazs apparently RBS are saying they will leave Scotland if there is a yes vote...
I am a Scot living down south and while I am sad that I can't vote I think it's the right thing. I think the prospect of independence scares me a bit but I don't know how much that is to do with feeling that I no longer live in my own country. My social circle at home seem to be against independence but I get the feeling that there is growing support elsewhere. Don't be confused though with SNP being in power and Scots supporting independence though - I think it is more to do with people being sick of the Labour/Lib Dem's and the Tories not really being an alternative. Coming from a rural area in Scotland I am a bit suspicious of the SNP as all we've seen is cuts to vital services since they have come in. I think Scotland gets extra money because it has a large rural population and I feel that the rural areas have been getting less so they can bring in crowd pleasing policies (which I think are brilliant if the sums add up).
I would want to know more about what Scotland's currency would be if we were to be independent and what our voting rights in the EU would be. I think that is the difference with established small European countries like Austria - we would join on less favourable terms than them.
One thing I also find interesting is that at the moment students from other EU countries have to get the same terms as Scottish students. As NI students can have Irish passports apparently they don't have to pay tuition fees if they go to Scottish Universities whereas English students do. Would this mean English students could go to Scottish unis for free after independence? I know where I'll be encouraging DS to go - wish he could spend more time up there now!

It is ridiculous but you must think that you'll get some utter fuckwits that will vote yes because 'all English people are arseholes' and we used to battle hundreds of years ago.

DISCLAIMER this isn't my viewpoint. My lovely Dp is English.

let's just assume, though, that the 'utter fuckwit' section of the population is not present on MN and stop talking about them as if they're at all significant. that would actually be huge progress on these threads.