I don't know one single reason why Scotland would want to quit the UK

[ClementineKelandra]

I'm genuinely interested in the reasons why Scotland want to break away from the UK. I'm sure there must be many good ones but I jyst can't see any atm.

It seems to me that people wanting independence really want it for sentimental reasons and it is an anti England stance rather than a pro Scotland one. In some ways I hope Scotland gets its independence so that its people can feel they've put 2 fingers up to Westminster and England (Im leaving Wales out as I have never detected an anti Wales attitude) but I am concerned that it will damage Scottish/English relations at every level. I do beleive that most people in England are indifferent about Scots independence.

One answer to the financial question: www.yesscotland.net/can_scotland_afford_to_become_independent

of course, but what this prof was saying was that the embra agreement itself had signed off that england and scotland would only start negotiating the hard bits after the ballot was won. which is impossible. we're not all braveheart types, we want to know what will be the financial burden/gains.

Mirry1 among the older members of my family, who did have an anti-English agenda when I was growing up, I'm heartened to see they are approaching it positively: we can do this for ourselves, we can make it work. I'm surprised. (They were pretty bigoted against the English when I was a child. I went to university in England and lived there for a while. Nobody gave a shit about Scotland it was really liberating for me.)

suburbs, central belt... so, middle management types?

loads of my friends are pro. central belt, city types, uni, IT, media, creatives. plenty of cash swilling around.

mirry, re this sentimental/anti-english line. can't you see how patronising that is. you silly scots, you can't possibly understand this, you're so hysterical and emotional. it's practically gaslighting and makes me absolutely fucking furious tbh.

More info about Scotland's finances: www.yesscotland.net/will_an_independent_scotland_be_financially_secure

mirry, re this sentimental/anti-english line. can't you see how patronising that is. you silly scots, you can't possibly understand this, you're so hysterical and emotional. it's practically gaslighting and makes me absolutely fucking furious tbh.

This. Yyyyyyyyyyyyy!

Economics degree. Tick
Higher tax payer. Tick
Experience of the public sector. Tick
Experience of the private sector. Tick in fact majority of career in private sector, securing major sales
Have lived not just around the world but also in England. Tick
Live in middle class area. Tick
Have a range of friends most of whom are intelligent . Tick

So why wouldn't I understand the economics of potential independence?

I agree Aitch, we need to more about the financial stuff so we can make an informed choice. In principle I would be in favour of independence. As time goes on I feel I have less and less in common with the South of England. I do wonder though if it would be a financial disaster and if we would have to go cap in hand to England like we did after the Darien scheme.

Mirry2 how is gaining the right to govern our own country by politicians we have elected "sentimental"??

I don't think it's an anti English stance at all Mirry, apart from a few people that will vote on sentiment rather than fact, and of course there are going to be people like that.
I'm still a don't know, my decision for a yes vote will be purely down to how far this Tory party will go, as it is a party that has no consequence in Scotland and I do not want to be ruled by a party that has only one MP in Westminster.
If I was going to go down the sentimental route I would actually stay with the union, but I'm waiting to see all the pros and cons before I vote.
I'm sure there are many Scots like me that will vote with their heads and not their hearts.

Cross posted with Sundaegirl.

I'll add in:
Central belt. Tick
Suburbs. Tick if you count an inner city "designed" district as a suburb - but it is very leafy

Yes, TooImmature. We're "too wee, too poor, too stupid." Obviously

(And you're too immature )

As much as it sticks in my craw to say it I'm middle class, suburban, central belt as are the circles I move in generally and I know a lot of pro.

Now that is the first and last time I've ever refereed to myself as middle class. Yuk. But for research purposes there you go!

Aitch and tool my observations are based on scottish people i know, people i am related to even and visiting Scotland on numerous occasions. It may make you furious but that is how it comes across. Do you really think that some one who hold a different view to you is gaslighting?

'loads of my friends are pro. central belt, city types, uni, IT, media, creatives. plenty of cash swilling around. ' Great. I'm wondering if you misunderstood my point though?

Just that none of my social circle are planning to vote Yes and that I guess it does depend which circles you move in as to perception of strength of feeling.

Most people I know are unenthusiastic about the mechanics of separating, and think that the costs will be significant and outweighs the benefits. One person I know works at a large organisation in Scotland, a top employer of thousands of Scots. Official line : We have no view on Independence. Private line: committees are putting in place strategies to move work overseas in the event of independence. Independence and the upheaval following it is a risk to international business, even if just a short term one.

I hear more anti-US or anti-Westminster sentiment these days than anti-English.

Lady, maybe i'm basing my remarks on the fact that the Scots I know become very emotional when talking about Scots independence whereas the English don't.

Mirry1, eh? Why would English people get emotional about the future of a country that isn't theirs? Of course the Scots feel something stronger than indifference

Mirry, I object to the idea that I am making an important decision for the future of my country based solely on fuzzy sentimental down-the-English thinking. Perhaps the people you know are, but I can only speak for myself.

No, you speak for me too.

Central belt.
Rural.

Middle-class.
Public sector.

Degree in Scots law.

Scottish born, Scottish father, English mother, English husband. I'm not really anti-English.

I got very emotional during the Olympics every time a Brit won a medal.
I get emotional about remembrance Sunday too.
But politically I could not bear a life under a Tory Government for years to come.
And if the choice is that, or living in a country that veers towards my politics, that will be the way I'll vote.

"And why, why, do Yes types say they're going for 'independence' when the representation they have in Westminster is so much more significant than the influence they imagine we'd have in Europe."

I know, we should be thankful for that, it should be good enough to have some say over our destiny - add that to the list, Scots are most ungrateful, I find!

"We'd be zero in Europe!"

Send the memo to Austria, Belgium, Denmark - they are TOO SMALL to count, in fact they are TOO SMALL to be a country.

Thankfully you understand "economics" and could explain all this to us

hmmm, Mirry. so you're not patronising, you're merely a truth-teller, based on your own personal experiences? then i guess all the scottish people you know, are related to, and have met on your numerous are very stupid indeed, Mirry. seriously. all of them. i pity you, attracting these people, it must be awful.