Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

Newsnight Fri 2 Nov please watch v Important you know who is running the country

999 replies

MrsjREwing · 02/11/2012 11:53

Tom Watkins tweeted a seniour politician will be outed tonight and Max Clifford said on Daybreak shocking news will be released by the BBC today.

OP posts:
LineRunner · 09/11/2012 11:15

In my personal view, and it's just a gut feeling really, there's something not quite right about McAlpine's statement. It has a feel of an unconvincing 'Why I'm not sueing everyone' apologia.

Plus, why does he not just clearly say, 'I have never abused a young person or child, ever'?

Why the carefully worded 'I've never been in a Wrexham care home' angle, for example? No-one ever said the abuse took place inside the home. That is a main criticism of the narrow remit of the Waterhouse inquiry ffs.

AnyaKnowIt · 09/11/2012 12:24

I agree the statement is carefully worded.

Xenia · 09/11/2012 12:25

A good statement. I think that was his only choice given all the internet comments. Let us now see the proof of those who seem so sure to condemn without seeing evidence.

"Over the last several days it has become apparent to me that a number of ill- or uninformed commentators have been using blogs and other internet media outlets to accuse me of being the senior Conservative party figure from the days of Margaret Thatcher's leadership who is guilty of sexually abusing young residents of a children's home in Wrexham, north Wales, in the 1970s and 1980s.

It has additionally become apparent to me that a number of broadcasters and newspapers have, without expressly naming me, also been alleging that a senior Conservative party figure from that time was guilty of or suspected of being guilty of the sexual abuse of residents of this children's home.

It is obvious that there must be a substantial number of people who saw that I had been identified in the internet publications as this guilty man and who subsequently saw or heard the broadcasts or read the newspapers in question and reasonably inferred that the allegation of guilt in those broadcasts and newspapers attached to me.

Even though these allegations made of me by implication in the broadcast and print media, and made directly about me on the internet, are wholly false and seriously defamatory I can no longer expect the broadcast and print media to maintain their policy of defaming me only by innuendo.

There is a media frenzy and I have to expect that an editor will soon come under pressure to risk naming me. My name and the allegations are for all practical purposes linked and in the public domain and I cannot rewind the clock.

I therefore have decided that in order to mitigate, if only to some small extent, the damage to my reputation I must publicly tackle these slurs and set the record straight. In doing so I am by no means giving up my right to sue those who have defamed me in the recent past or who may do so in the future and I expressly reserve my rights to take all such steps as I and my solicitors consider necessary to protect my interests.

On Tuesday 6 November the home secretary, the Rt Hon Theresa May MP, made a statement in the House of Commons about the historic allegations of child abuse in the North Wales police force area. She explained that in 1991, North Wales police conducted an investigation into allegations that, throughout the 1970s and 1980s, children in homes that were managed and supervised by Clwyd county council were sexually and physically abused. The result of the police investigation was eight prosecutions and seven convictions of former care workers. Despite the investigation and convictions, it was widely believed, she said, that the abuse was in fact on a far greater scale, but a report produced by Clwyd council's own inquiry was never published, because so much of its content was considered by lawyers to be defamatory.

In 1996, the Rt Hon William Hague MP, the then secretary of state for Wales, invited Sir Ronald Waterhouse to lead an inquiry into the abuse of children in care in the Gwynedd and Clwyd council areas. Mrs May told the House of Commons that the Waterhouse inquiry sat for 203 days and heard evidence from more than 650 people. Statements made to the inquiry named more than 80 people as child abusers, many of whom were care workers or teachers. In 2000, the inquiry's report Lost in Care made 72 recommendations for changes to the way in which children in care were protected by councils, social services and the police. Following the report's publications, 140 compensation claims were settled on behalf of the victims.

Mrs May further said that the report found no evidence of a paedophile ring beyond the care system, which was the basis of the rumours that followed the original police investigation and, indeed, one of the allegations made in the past week. Last Friday, a victim of sexual abuse at one of the homes named in the report ? Mr Steve Messham ? alleged that the inquiry did not look at abuse outside care homes, and he renewed allegations against the police and several individuals. I am, as is now well known to readers of the internet and to journalists working for the print and broadcast media, one of the individuals implicated by Mr Messham.

I have every sympathy for Mr Messham and for the many other young people who were sexually abused when they were residents of the children's home in Wrexham. Any abuse of children is abhorrent but the sexual abuse to which these vulnerable children were subjected in the 1970s and 1980s is particularly abhorrent. They had every right to expect to be protected and cared for by those who were responsible for them and it is abundantly clear that they were horribly violated. I have absolutely no sympathy for the adults who committed these crimes. Those who have been convicted were deservedly punished and those who have not yet been brought to justice should be as soon as possible.

The facts are, however, that I have been to Wrexham only once. I visited the local constituency Conservative Association in my capacity as deputy chairman. I was accompanied on this trip, at all times, by Stuart Newman, a Central Office agent. We visited Mary Bell, a distant relative of mine and close friend of Stuart Newman. We did not stay the night in Wrexham. I have never been to the children's home in Wrexham, nor have I ever visited any children's home, reform school or any other institution of a similar nature. I have never stayed in a hotel in or near Wrexham, I did not own a Rolls-Royce, have never had a "Gold card" or "Harrods card" and never wear aftershave, all of which have been alleged. I did not sexually abuse Mr Messham or any other residents of the children's home in Wrexham. Stuart Newman is now dead but my solicitors are endeavouring to locate a senior secretary who worked at Central Office at the time to see if she can remember the precise date I visited that association.

I fully support the decision (announced by the home secretary in the House of Commons on Tuesday) of the chief constable of north Wales, Mr Mark Polin, to invite Mr Keith Bristow, the director general of the National Crime Agency, to assess the allegations recently received, to review the historic police investigations and to investigate any fresh allegations reported to the police into the alleged historic abuse in north Wales care homes. Although I live in Italy and have done so for many years and although I am in poor health, I am entirely willing to meet Mr Polin and Mr Bristow in London as soon as can be arranged so that they can eliminate me from their inquiries and so that any unwarranted suspicion can be removed from me.

I wish to make it clear that I do not suggest that Mr Messham is malicious in making the allegations of sexual abuse about me. He is referring to a terrible period of his life in the 1970s or 1980s and what happened to him will have affected him ever since. If he does think I am the man who abused him all those years ago I can only suggest that he is mistaken and that he has identified the wrong person.

I conclude by reminding those who have defamed me or who intend to do so that in making this statement I am by no means giving up my right to seek redress at law and repeat that I expressly reserve my rights to take all such steps as I and my solicitors consider necessary to protect my interests."

Mrcrumpswife · 09/11/2012 12:46

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Siriusstar · 09/11/2012 12:53

I took the DC comment to mean that most of the names on the list were people who were gay and so he could then say that they have been named because they are gay rather than whether they have been linked with anything in particular.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 09/11/2012 12:55

I think that is a pretty categoric denial, there is nothing particularly evasive in it. He is saying he is not the Wrexham Tory abuser which is what has been suggested. Bear in mind that Stephen Messham hasn't publicly named him, its the press that have done it by implication.

As for why he didn't sue earlier - sueing is usually the last resort because it brings these allegations to everyone's attention where they might have fizzled out without any action being taken. Once you sue, even if you win, there are plenty of people who will be saying "no smoke without fire" so you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Pagwatch · 09/11/2012 12:57

"People will be saying 'no smoke without fire'"

Yes. Exactly as as just happened on this thread.

I can't imagine a more categoric denial tbh.

Tipsandshoots · 09/11/2012 13:02

Aye "simple sword of truth" is it?

AnyaKnowIt · 09/11/2012 13:07

Interview on sky news now

ssd · 09/11/2012 13:12

doesn't this all just stink

ssd · 09/11/2012 13:15

they need to find out who ordered dozens of photo's of abuse taking place to be destroyed

that's the first step

LineRunner · 09/11/2012 13:16

If not Alistair Mclpine, then who? Sian Griffiths say that a name was read out to the Waterhouse inquiry by a Detective Superintendent.

AnyaKnowIt · 09/11/2012 13:20

Another victim on sky news saying that he and other boys were taken from the care home to a flat in London, after a night of being abuse they were taken out sightseeing! He said that they were often giving spirits (and he thinks drugs) before being abused.

AnyaKnowIt · 09/11/2012 13:22

Sky link here

ssd · 09/11/2012 13:23

I hope Sian Griffiths has 24 hr police protection

I'm sure we'll see on the news soon her house has been broken into and most of the files she has kept for years have been destroyed.....then the break in will be blamed on a local thief.....

its awful to be cynical but keep watching the news, I'll be amazed if something sinister doesn't happen to those files...

AnyaKnowIt · 09/11/2012 13:26

I hope she has made plenty of copies!

LineRunner · 09/11/2012 13:27

I'm assuming that C4 took a copy, as well as filming lots of the documents and a lot more 'testimony' (if I can call it that) from Sian Griffiths.

cavell · 09/11/2012 13:29

There are a few on this thread who might do well to heed the final paragraph of McAlpine's statement:

"I conclude by reminding those who have defamed me or who intend to do so that in making this statement I am by no means giving up my right to seek redress at law and repeat that I expressly reserve my rights to take all such steps as I and my solicitors consider necessary to protect my interests."

In the UK, if someone thinks that what you wrote about them is either defamatory or damaging, the onus will be entirely on you to prove that your comments are true in court.

LineRunner · 09/11/2012 13:32

If he makes a statement, it is reasonable to discuss it.

He's really not going to sue me, honest.

AnyaKnowIt · 09/11/2012 13:32

There are a few on this thread who might do well to heed the final paragraph of McAlpine's statement:

Why, we are only talking about what is in the mainstream media

MrsjREwing · 09/11/2012 13:37

McAlpines name was not mentioned until the press or he named him.

OP posts:
ssd · 09/11/2012 13:38

so we are meant to be cowed into being quiet?

I think not

cavell · 09/11/2012 13:39

He has clearly warned that people who defame hime may face legal action. Some of these comments and "sceptical" smileys go beyond mere discussion of his statement, IMO.

Whist individual posters may be safe from prosecution (notwithstanding the conviction of the twitters who disclosed the identity of the rape victim earlier this week), it might not be the same for our hosts here (i.e. mumsnet).

Also bear in mind this from todays's Guardian:

"Messham's 1997 evidence to Waterhouse should have ruled out speculation about Lord McAlpine, whose Italian home has been mobbed by reporters for the past week. Reporters covering the inquiry at the time concluded that Messham could not be referring to Lord McAlpine because Messham said his abuser was dead. In another apparent discrepancy, the Times reported this week that their reporter put Lord McAlpine's name to Messham in 1996. "But he said that his abuser was called 'Tom' and had a flat in Wrexham".

The only apparent corroborative evidence about Lord McAlpine has also been undermined. It came from another boy who was not a Bryn Estyn inmate. He described being abused in Wrexham five years later by a wealthy figure with a Harrods charge card. Traced by the Guardian, this victim, who wants to remain anonymous, confirms that his sole knowledge of Lord McAlpine comes from being shown a photograph of him subsequently by a journalist.

The victim told the Waterhouse inquiry, under the name "Witness C" that he was no longer sure he had identified the right man. Waterhouse reported: "C had subsequently indicated ? that he could not be 100% sure that his abuser was a member of the X [McAlpine] family, and it is clear that he was referring to a different person."
"

LineRunner · 09/11/2012 13:42

Strange the photographs were destroyed.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 09/11/2012 13:43

thing about mcalpine is that he may well have been named during the inquiry, but erroneously. it's not up to an abused child to turn detective, that's the police's job.