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News

Newsnight Fri 2 Nov please watch v Important you know who is running the country

999 replies

MrsjREwing · 02/11/2012 11:53

Tom Watkins tweeted a seniour politician will be outed tonight and Max Clifford said on Daybreak shocking news will be released by the BBC today.

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Growlithe · 03/11/2012 22:32

There are two separate parts to all these scandals. The actual crime, and the cover up.

I think the best we can do, if we are not direct victims, on forums like this and also in RL, is to protest against the cover ups. Please protest against the cover ups.

It makes me sick that there were so many people pissing against the wind during this period, for different reasons, in different circumstances, but all after one thing - justice.

We need the road to justice be be a lot smoother for the ordinary person.

mignonette · 03/11/2012 22:37

We need an organised march in Central London, drawing as much attention as we can to this issue so as to render a whitewash impossible. Or an organised march in any major centre of population....

MrsjREwing · 03/11/2012 22:42

I read on the DI forum that they are trying to co-ordinate sending kids birthday cards in protest over childabuse.

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AnyaKnowIt · 03/11/2012 22:43
Growlithe · 03/11/2012 22:55

How fantastic would it be, a march though all the major areas affected by the cover ups. Gathering people affected. Unrealistic though, by geography and the sheer number of people.

Maybe a website for people to post their story, and their struggle - without accusations when these are proving legally contentious?

Just some mechanism to mark each and every member of the public who as been shockingly let down by the system we believed in. Sad

mignonette · 03/11/2012 23:04

We must keep the pressure up. I am a psychiatric nurse and have many many patients who have been abused. I am determined never to be part of the problem, but to hopefully be part of the solution by not keeping quiet..

ha3782 · 03/11/2012 23:16

Hello.

Re. Jill Dando, Tom Watson posted this last Sunday:

gregcallus.tumblr.com/post/34500136975/jill-dando-john-yates-operation-oxborough

It's a very good breakdown of the case and how it relates to the phone-hacking scandal. The conclusion is rather worrying.

ha3782 · 03/11/2012 23:17

gregcallus.tumblr.com/post/34500136975/jill-dando-john-yates-operation-oxborough

This website is so 20th century ;)

AnyaKnowIt · 03/11/2012 23:30

Well it hasn't been a good week for Cameron has it, first significant defeat in the Commons since he came to power, Newsnight, and now texts between Rebekah Brookes have been leaked.

Chris Bryant has just tweeted that the Pm isn't doing PMQ'S this week

MrsjREwing · 03/11/2012 23:34

He is probably scared if he is asked what he was riding!

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AnyaKnowIt · 03/11/2012 23:36

Eww

Xenia · 04/11/2012 07:16

It is not a party political issue.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 04/11/2012 08:13

do we know that it isn't? if i was doing something illegal i'm not sure i'd fraternise with the opposition while doing it.

FiercePanda · 04/11/2012 08:17

DC's probably not doing PMQs because by that time more of his grubby texts to Rebekah Brooks will have been released, and we'll all know how compromised his position is.

...£10 on a 2013 general election, anyone? Wink

Pagwatch · 04/11/2012 08:22

It may be that the story has political connotations but that is different from the attempts to make it party politics.

Tbh I am feeling pretty contemptuous of anyone who tries to use this dreadful issue to score a cheap party point. It diminishes what happened. It's incredibly disrespectful to the seriousness of what happened to victims.

I am a bit Hmm about what looked like an awful attempt at a joke upthread.

LoopyLoopsOlympicHoops · 04/11/2012 08:25

Not sure if this has been linked already? Petition to allow Leah McGrath her visa back (Jersey home scandal journalist, visa revoked after uncovered abuse)

FiercePanda · 04/11/2012 08:30

I'm fairly disgusted that he's not doing PMQs, this week of all weeks. Has any reason been given, or does he just not feel like it?

I'm no fan of Dave's or the Tories, but this goes way beyond party politics. DC. Is the PM and he has to show authority and be demanding inquiries, transparency, protection for those in fear for their lives. He should be promising that every single allegation will be taken seriously and investigated, and those responsible no matter who they are be brought to justice. If I can see that, why can't he? Confused

MrsjREwing · 04/11/2012 09:44

Sorry for causing offence, it wasn't a joke.

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edam · 04/11/2012 10:32

Xenia - parliamentarians do have the power to set themselves 'above the courts' by speaking freely in parliament (if that's how you want to see it). There's no question of whether we want them to or not - it's not a new phenomenon, parliamentary privilege has been part of our constitution for hundreds of years.

It's a crucial right for us mere voters - the fact that our MPs can give us some measure of justice even when the rich and powerful and the courts seek to obstruct it. For instance, by naming those wrongly given doubly secret injunctions that are so secret you aren't allowed to say someone has an injunction. Ridiculous obfuscation dreamed up by the courts to allow wrong-doers such as Trafigura to hide their wickedness that was rightly exposed by MPs using parliamentary privilege.

All those useless inquiries into Hillsborough, child abuse in North Wales and so on were all led by judges, all of whom were tasked with finding the truth but actually succeeded in covering it up. It took an independent panel headed by a Bishop to get the truth about Hillsborough. God knows what it will take to find out what the hell went on in North Wales.

BethFairbright · 04/11/2012 10:51

When they appoint the teams of the various inquiries and judicial reviews, It's essential that none of them are freemasons.

isupposeimabitofafraud · 04/11/2012 11:10

Hmm odd that those texts leak now.

Who leaked them is the big question I'm asking. In theory there are only two people who had those texts. (Unless someone hacked).

With the Leveson report due this month its convenient. Most convenient.

(And stuff to do with phone hacking and Leveson is ALSO not party political.)

I was going to post last night that I had a feeling they would announce an overall all inquiry into failures of child protection as a national scandal to take control of the situation and take a lead role over all these individual investigations in the next couple of days.

Reading this this morning, I'm not so sure now. My feeling about the lack of an inquiry up to this point was that it was symptomatic of a lack of leadership and an inability to see the need given the staggering scope of institutional failures that were already laid bare before Newsnight. But Newsnight was a tipping point that would force the governments hand.

Not doing PMQ this week is the least of my concerns. I don't know that it is the end of the world as I would imagine someone else (Clegg) will be taking questions in his absence as he has done. Thus giving politicians the chance to ask questions under parliamentary privilege anyway. (Who is answering them is perhaps of less interest and importance than the questions themselves)

What I am concerned about is Cameron, being knocked sideways by this leak and puts him in a position where he is going to be more focused merely on maintaining his position rather than other pressing political issues. I'm not sure I actually blame him for that.

If this all runs as deep as some fear (and I'm certainly not a conspiracy theorist) then there is a big motive for trying to cause an leadership crisis a) because it distracts from Cameron from the issue in general b) it distracts the press from doing what is necessary c) it is going to take a strong leader to tackle many of the issues concerned and this will weaken and potentially destabilise the current government.

The way that Leveson and phone hacking, the choices of what the media choose to investigate and all these numerous failures of child protection are hugely connected. They didn't do Jimmy Savile in his lifetime and they also didn't challenge the ruling of the Waterhouse Tribunal despite the fact that senior politicians were involved. Why? Surely these are far more in the public interest than all the other celeb stories they have covered. Its very important not to loose site of this. I was always taught to look not just at what is reported in the press - but more importantly to look for what is not reported - as that is the bigger story and reveals a lot, lot more about the 'truth'.

What has happened with Savile is the best defence against the idea of more media regulation being introduced by Leveson but it also shows enormous cracks in the use of this argument by the media when they are shown up to have failed in their 'duty' and 'purpose'. This is important to both the media and to politics.

One of the things that people always say is 'follow the money'. Stories about celebrities generate £££££s. Huge under cover investigative journalism is both costly and risky and doesn't interest as many people. The biggest celeb money generators has always been the Royal Family. Diana used to sell more newspapers than any other subject. And whats happened to Kate Middleton is also very telling.

The Savile story is an interesting one though, as I rather suspect that Savile is selling a awful lot of newspapers right now as people are horrified, but I'm not sure how deeply the general public are actually interested beyond the celebrity aspect. The names being thrown about, whilst hugely shocking, won't sell newspapers in the same way as Savile... So public obsessions pay a huge part in this in a way. The stories we look at are monitored for traffic and influence editorial decisions. Clicks count.

Whilst we are all sitting here feeling damn powerless right now, I do think its helpful to really think about all of this and if people want to put pressure on to make sure this is all seen through, understanding what really motivates the press and politicians is going to be crucial.

FWIW I don't think we are powerless. I do think as a huge unorganised group we lack leadership and direction which makes it a lot, lot harder to challenge and put pressure on to get answers and change things. Again worth thinking about the criticisms/successes of other similar protest groups in the last couple of years. Hillsborough - never giving up in the face of adversity and never accepting the official line. Occupy - suffered for a complete lack of focus and set of clear objectives due to the numerous and diverse groups involved.

Patience, persistance, clear ideas of what the main objectives and issues are and staying focused on that without being distracted by all the side shows (stuff like leaking of texts to undermine the PM) and avoiding getting into too much infighting.

That was waaaaayyyy to long, but nevermind. Soundbites don't really cover it.

NapOfTheDamned · 04/11/2012 11:20

If it looked like the security service could be implicated in paedophile blackmail links discoverable by a media or parliamentary investigation, I would expect the security services to leak those texts as a threat and a distraction.

TiggyD · 04/11/2012 11:28

Good story here about it. the-alternative.co.uk/news/lord-mcalpine-derek-laud-top-rumours-as-newsnight-tory-paedophile/

I think Lord McAlpine and Derek Laud might need to explain a few things.

NigellasGuest · 04/11/2012 11:31

I am reposting loopyloop's link to the petition to un-ban Leah Mcgrath Goodman from Jersey:
www.change.org/petitions/ukhomeoffice-restore-the-visa-of-banned-journalist-leah-mcgrath-goodman-freejersey

It is very very important we all know about this issue.
I will try and find a link to the video again, where she explains what has happened.
Basically, the powers that be of Jersey banned her from investigating what they're up to, and from uncovering Haut de la Garenne child abuse.

This whole thing goes right to the top of many walks of life and professions and anyone who thinks it is party political is quite frankly naive.

NigellasGuest · 04/11/2012 11:35

here it is, please watch. You need to forward to 12:33

johnhemming.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/leah-mcgrath-goodmans-interview-on.html

this is how people who try to get to the truth are treated.
Why haven't any other journalists tried to investigate, it Leah the only one?
Perhaps they have, but I'm not aware of them?