Are you in favour of Scotland leaving the UK?

[LadyMaryCreepyCrawley]

Lucky bastards!

it's true we will be punished badly for our cheek in asking for this referendum, should it fail.

Oh, fgs, it's not Middle Earth. It's this kind of paranoid persecution complex that makes me think Scottish separatists really have no clue. That and they can never really demonstrate an understanding the role of currency in national economics.

I live in Scotland, move in well educated circles, broad spectrum of nationalities and plenty of people who work in multi national organisations. Almost everyone I know will be voting No. I mean, what exactly is so 'independent' about moving from the UK into Europe where we'll have even less say.

it's not paranoid or silly, tbh, just look at the attitude on here and on the thread last night. if this simple yes/no fails (and it probably will), the Tories will kick our arses in just the same way that they did before. poll tax, anyone?

i'm trying hard not to out myself but i absolutely know of one group of people who have lost their jobs already as a result of not being able to persuade scots to vote tory. (and no, it's not scottish tories... this is london-based).

Why will they kick our arses? And how? We do have a Scottih Parliament.

btw i am neither a middle earther nor a separatist and i also move in well-educated etc etc etc circles, but i would hesitate to say that those people would vote one way or another at this stage. (and horror of horrors, it's not only they who have the vote!) how everyone can speak for their entire social group right now is beyond me.

lots of head/heart stuff going on, and lots of arguments yet to be made i guess. agree about the currency and europe, that's still unclear, but to ignore the warning from history that was the tories behaviour after the last time this subject came up... well, that's just a bit thick imo.

Which gets an allocated slice of funding from the Tory government.

JollyJack are you seriously suggesting that Westminster will cut the Scottish Parliament budget if the referendum fails?

Oh, so no paranoia there then...

Does not anyone else find it bizarre that the SNP are banking on the money from the North Sea oil fields while pouring money into " carbon free" energy sources? But that's ok we are "green".

So,it's ok to export to others to do as they want with the oil but we'll pay big money to international companies to construct our wind turbines etc

Please would someone explain the logic in this.

No, I'm not suggesting that.

You suggested that the Tories couldn't do anything because we have a Scottish parliament. The point of seeking independence is that we don't currently have autonomy and Westminster controls many things.

Clearly the Tories, or whatever government there is down South could have a huge negative effect on Scotland if they wanted to.

I was simply pointing out that your argument made no sense. I have no idea what the Westminster govt would do if there was a no vote.

kaumana I don't understand your point. The Scottish govt are putting resources into renewable energy to help Scotland's economy. And to future proof us. Nobody sane is suggesting that oil revenues will be around forever. Why shouldn't Scotland exploit its other natural resources?

The proverbial arse will be kicked if there's a no vote as the Tories are tabling measures to take some of the devolved duties away from Holyrood.

...and with no help from Labour, who ironically setup the Scottish Parliament in 1998

I would say that most people living in England won't care whether or not Scotland votes for independence, because it probably won't make much of an impact on us. As a person married to a Scot I have come up against alot of anti - English sentiment amongst my inlaws an friends from Scotland but I think most English people I know have a live and let live mentality. Certainly in London we live in a multicultural society where the Scots are just one of a whole raft of ethnic groups, although I don't think we englsih single them out as a different group - the Scots single themselves out.

The 'rule from Europe' argument is a complete facepalm moment.

Having control of our own financial affairs, keeping the tax revenue that we raise, making our own decisions in our best interests. Europe may lay gudelines, as are followed now, but they wont rule over us any more or less than before.

Heck, Scotland might not choose to join the EU.....(shock-horror)

do you REALLY think it's paranoid to be concerned what the Westminster govt (realistically, the Tories) would do in the event of their winning this referendum? i think anyone would be crazy not to be, tbh.

My argument makes total sense. Westminster will not 'take revenge' because it can't. Scotland's Parliament is enshrined in law, the Scotland Act, so to over throw that Act they'd need MPs to vote it through. They won't because, guess what, some of them are from Scotland.

The kind of 'revenge' type thinking is so off the mark.

There's no paranoia at all...

As per my previous page (the long post), why anyone would vote NO is just ludicrous.

Two more years of this! That Alex Salmond has got a fucking lot to answer for. Personally I think that if the majority of the people of Scotland wish to be independent we should wish them farewell and the very best of luck.

The 'rule from Europe' argument is a complete facepalm moment.

Ok, I really have no idea which aspect of Europe you are 'face palming' so it's difficult to know whether you have a grasp on how our legal system works, or about the effect of rates of inflation and mechanisms to control the economy. However, the 'control our own financial affairs' does seem to imply you don't get that to control financial affairs you actually have to control your own currency. And there's no suggestion for setting up a Central Bank of Scotland printing our own cash that I've heard.

Jack but surely you can see the double standard? Selling our oil but we are "green"..

Many nations have done, and still do well using other currencies for a short term.

Using the pound would do everyone favours.

The BoE would welcome having Scotland on board otherwise 10% of GDP disappears off the books overnight, and politically, would work well for the rUK Govt as it'd be a compteting currency against the (crappy) Euro.

Until the time when Scotland gets its own currency sorted out and in order after a few years, it can do its own thing. I'd wager the BoE would be offering incentives hand over fist to keep Scotland on board in the 'Pound-zone' or whatever it'd be called.

I could truthfully write the same statement - except in my case the following sentence would be Almost everyone I know will be voting Yes

Just goes to show it is still wide open. :)

Those involved with the Independence campaign might get upset by the Sundaegirl's implication that well educated people and those who work for multi-national organisations de facto won't vote Yes. But I suppose that is part of the work that the Yes campaign needs to do - demonstrating the positive reasons for independence to all sections of society. And likewise, the Unionists need to provide examples of why we are "better together".

You are completely mistaken. One of the biggest economic lesson of the last 30yrs is how to control your currency. Argentina was a disaster. Greece is chaos.

And no, the BoE will not want Scotland in the Pound Zone! Why would it? (See above or any economics basic text book)

Actually, the Scottish banks do print their own cash - hadn't you noticed? At the moment they have to provide appropriate sureties with the Bank of England. I see no reason for that to end in the short term - in the same way that Ireland for many years maintained parity between the punt and the Pound Sterling.

But you are right - it is one of the details that needs to be discussed and proposals put forward as to what could be done.

On a humorous note, I can remember once, many, many years ago seeing a Foreign Exchange table in an airport which had Scottish Pounds with a better exchange rate than English pounds I had fantasies of making a killing by manipulating the two, but the difference was so minimal that you would have needed dealer type amounts to cancel out the fees.

^This is what I'm worried about, the average Joe < Jimmy> is not so much aware of the above terms, not that I think it is beyond understanding but I would like the pros and cons put forward in an easy way to comprehend in the media.

I cannot quite see how it will work to Scotland's benefit. Look at the financial situation of some smaller countries at the moment.
I'm in favour of it. Lets face it it wouldn't affect me that much. Any scot ive ever met seems to want to dissociate themselves with the rest of uk anyway.
If I sent my dd to university there would she then not need to pay? My cousins live in Portugal and they have all been educated in Scotland as fees lower. So maybe we will then benefit in some way as the rest of Europe seems to.

Yes, some small coutries are really struggling. Luxembourg is having a really hard time, so is Malta...not!

Demonstrably, figures show that suggest that the introduction of the Euro has triggered sizeable increases in intra-Euro area trade. Not that im saying that Scotland should join, not now, but the statement that small countries flounder is risible.

On average, the Euro triggered a reallocation of intra-Euro area exports to small countries by some 6 percent.