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Original poster

Baby born in Camp Bastion!

187 replies

FairPhyllis · 20/09/2012 01:45

A soldier has given birth in Camp Bastion, after not realizing she was pregnant. The baby was five weeks prem. Link.

I hope the surprise has helped morale at the camp. But what I would like to know (because I am endlessly fascinated by stories of births in weird places), is what citizenship does the baby get? Will it have Afghan citizenship? Can it get British citizenship from being born in a British base? (The mother is Fijian)

OP posts:
Want2bSupermum · 21/09/2012 00:25

I do believe that the mother could have gone to full term without acknowleging she was pregnant. My brother is in the Army and has been injured before. One time he didn't notice he had a bullet in his leg for two days (it was only an inch under the skin in his thigh). He said that you separate your mind from your body which is why he never noticed anything.

Poor girl must have been in shock. It is great that they are flying her back to the UK. I read in the telegraph that the Army are considering testing all women to see if they are pregnant before being deployed. While it sounds extreme to me (who is sitting in the comfort of my home with a hospital a 10min drive away) it does make sense.

madwomanintheattic · 21/09/2012 00:51

It makes no sense at all. Grin

You don't suddenly get celibate because you leave the uk. Grin

And some might suggest that you stand a greater chance of getting up the duff on tour than anywhere else. If in -theatre pg testing rates are anything to go by.

When are they going to do it, for a start? At brize, just before they step onto the aircraft? At your medical, which can be weeks before? Will you have to sign some sort of document to swear off jiggy in the interim? And promise faithfully that you only had the Sex in the allowable time period where POAS would work at the date of testing? Grin

These are adults. To suggest women need to be tested to protect them and the most minuscule chance that they might be accidentally trying to smuggle an unknown fetus is desperately infantilising.

Can you imagine?

MrsSnaplegs · 21/09/2012 05:29

MWintheA Exactly I mean why are servicewomen any different - its not as if we're not all adult enough to test ourselves
Sky news had some stats last night about how common it was to be pregnant and not know
All that has happened is one of those people happens to have given birth in Afghanistan as opposed to her bathroom/bedroom in the UK, and it just so happens she is a service person - shock horror Grin
Having been to Bastion a few years back they had baby stuff as sometimes had local women with young babies in and they often have paediatric nurses working there
Agree it must be so nice to bring a new life into the world as opposed to their normal workload - it will make their tour Smile

MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 21/09/2012 09:05

For those suggesting a midwife from Limassol -err - what about a midwife from -ohh- radical thought - . I would not be suprised at expect Americans assuming that furriners were savages, but am disappointed that the Brits did not consider that babies have been happily and healthily delivered in Afghanistan since the dawn of humankind. But, no, fly her to London becasuw teh natives can't be trusted Angry

meditrina · 21/09/2012 09:11

You wouldn't put an unvetted Afghan into the heart of the military base for any reason. Have you not seen the news reports of "green on blue" killings?

strandednomore · 21/09/2012 09:25

MrsGuy - there probably aren't very many, if any, trained midwives in Afghanistan - at least, not trained as we know it. Unfortunately I don't think it's been easy for women to get training in anything for a very long time. Not to say there aren't women who do the job of a midwife in the more traditional sense - eg attend the birth.

Original poster
FairPhyllis · 21/09/2012 09:26

MrsGisbourne Er, what? I'm a civilian, but I would have thought it makes complete sense that you would want to get a premature baby and new mother out of a theatre of war pretty damn quick. I wouldn't imagine that the camp hospital is exactly brimming with neonatal specialists or equipment.

And would this be the Afghanistan that has the worst maternal mortality rate, and one of the worst infant mortality rates in the world? Why on earth would you want to pull midwifery or medical resources away from the local population when the mother and baby can fly home on a plane that is scheduled anyway?

OP posts:
JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 21/09/2012 09:54

The combined total of midwives, nurses and doctors amounts to fewer than 1 for every 1000 people

I think they have enough on their hands without being dragged into Bastion.

strandednomore · 21/09/2012 10:13

Sorry just realised I only mention women as midwives - there are of course also male midwives!

strandednomore · 21/09/2012 10:16

Thanks for that link Jenai - good to see that some women are getting the chance to train as midwives.

AnyoneforTurps · 21/09/2012 11:17

It is great that they are flying her back to the UK.

What is not so great is that she is likely to be dishonourably discharged for getting pregnant. Unplanned pregnancies are treated as a breach of discipline.

Needless to say, male soldiers do not get discharged for making someone pregnant.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 21/09/2012 11:22

Really Turps? That would be dreadful Angry

AnyoneforTurps · 21/09/2012 11:24

Jenai Happened to a friend couple of years ago though it's possible the rules have been changed since. I was gobsmacked that it did not breach equality law.

prettybird · 21/09/2012 11:44

Isn't the army exempt from equality law?

AnyoneforTurps · 21/09/2012 11:55

prettybird I thought that was only on operational tours but IANAL.

Either way, it seemed incredibly unfair - anyone can have a contraception failure. I understand that you have to be able to go on tours, which might be tricky as a single mother (though some of the military manage it, of course), but a dishonourable discharge seemed totally wrong. I hope the rule has changed.

LtEveDallas · 21/09/2012 12:05

What is not so great is that she is likely to be dishonourably discharged for getting pregnant. Unplanned pregnancies are treated as a breach of discipline

Total bollocks I'm glad to say. Single mothers have been "allowed" to remain in the Forces since 1993. Parents of either sex have to be able to "fulfil unrestricted military duties" and can be discharged if they do not comply (ie 'No I cannot go on Ops as I have no-one to look after my child') but they cannot be discharged just for having a baby/being a single father.

Oh and there is no such thing in the British Military as Dishonourably Discharged.

And yes, the Army is exempt many Equality Laws, although not this one.

lovechoc · 21/09/2012 12:10

"its not as if we're not all adult enough to test ourselves "

Is that right? The headline wouldn't have come about if that was the case!

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 21/09/2012 12:13

Why would she have tested herself if she had no reason to believe she was pregnant?

lovechoc · 21/09/2012 12:15

If you're having sex, there's always a chance you can fall pregnant, even using contraception! If she was completely celibate fair enough, no point test for pregnancy, but surely anyone with an ounce of common sense would know there's a small chance they may be pregnant especially if gaining weight?

LtEveDallas · 21/09/2012 12:15

Is that right? The headline wouldn't have come about if that was the case

Give the girl a break lovechoc. She deployed in March, the baby was born 5 weeks premature in September, so she was what? less than a month pregnant when she deployed, probably hadn't even missed a period - or maybe on the implant/injection/coil that she was expecting to stop her periods. She's female, not psychic!

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 21/09/2012 12:17

So, are we supposed to POAS religiously for 40 weeks after each shag, just in case?

AnyoneforTurps · 21/09/2012 12:44

Very pleased to hear that British female soldiers no longer get booted out if pregnant but friend's experience was more recent than 1993. She was on secondment from NZ (though serving with a UK regiment) so perhaps NZ rules applied?

Dishonourable discharge may well be the wrong term - but I know it was under a cloud with implications for her pension and reference.

MissYamabuki · 21/09/2012 14:13

I know it can happen, but it still baffles me. Your boobs change so much from practically day one of your pregnancy, how can you ignore that?
Also I had very strong tummy muscles and little tummy fat during my pregnancy- it only makes the baby movement more noticeable, for you and others! My baby was also back to back and lying diagonally and I would never have mistaken her kicks and movements for anything else.
She must have been superfit to keep the same levels of fitness when almost 8 months pregnant. V. impressed.
Lovely to read good news Smile

meditrina · 21/09/2012 14:13

When pregnant, female service personnel are put on restricted duties (via the official medical grading system that is also used for all others of both sex who cannot perform the full range of tasks because of a body condition). Only those whose condition means permanent impairment are considered for discharge (which is not automatic). So pregnancy does not in itself lead to discharge as full return to normal duties is anticipated.

For the soldier on secondment, if the downgrade meant she could no longer fulfil the role she was seconded to (there are more roles than operational deployment that are thus restricted), she would have been returned to her home unit. What happens after that is up to them. So her discharge would have been under NZ rules, not British ones.