woman sentenced to 8 years for 38-week home abortion

[WokingOnSunshine]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-19621675
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2204471/Mother-Sarah-Catt-terminated-baby-week-date-using-medication.html

What was she then going to do to conceal this live child?

I think the woman always has more rights than the baby. Though I was disagreeing on a legal level too, the law says that abortion is legal up to term so therefore there are reasons why abortion is justified up to term. Thankfully only a tiny amount of abortions happen this late.

What's the chance of a stillborn birth though? (sorry, I know it's happened to mumsnetters on this thread)

She can't have known this would be the result

No, threeorange. She adores him. As do all her extended family.
I didn't mean that his life is not worth as much as another child's, not at all. He has enriched the life of his mother and of all of us, he has taught us a lot.

But I do think that a pregnant woman, if faced with the possibility of the life my cousin has now, should have the choice if she wants that life. I admire my cousin, she has carried on being an amazing mother to her ds and to her dd, but she lost her marriage ( very common with a child with severe SNs) her ability to work, even her choice of where to go on holiday as not everywhere is suitable for her ds.

My cousin absolutely made the right choice for her and I'm glad she did but I don't know that she would judge anyone who terminated if they found themselves in her position.

i am.sorry if i upset you tamisara of course your baby eas a real child and i cannot begin to imagine the loss. but i do believe it is wrong that there is an element if picking and choosing which babies can.be aborted and which cannot and it us disabilist and disctiminatory and that is wrong.

i dont feel comfortable with late term abortion but as it is available it should be available to all and it would be wrong to force a woman to give birth to a baby and make her put it up fir adoption. i cannot think of a situation where i would have an abortion but everyone has different circumstances and ultimately i am pro-choice and believe woman have the right to autonomy over their iwn bodies and whilst pregnant that includes over the baby.

sorry for typos am on phone.

this is always going to be an uncomfortable discussion but fundamentally i dont think we can give an unbirn baby rights over and above the pregnant woman.

She needs help, not prison .

Help with what? She isn't mentally ill. She has seen a psych.....

Agree with Meglet.
Her obstetric history is deeply saddening.

5madthings I actually came on here to apologise to you. I probably should stay away from threads like this, it's impossible for me to be objective.

I took it personally, as I can't see Tamsin as a 'failed' pregnancy, she was my little girl, and she should be crawling around after her older sister, who will never know her x

Blackberry the woman concerned had searched how to procure an illegal abortion and how to induce a miscarriage, not how to induce a birth at a convenient time.

tamisara you dont need to.apologise and i was wrong to make assumptions. your daughter was not a 'failed' pregnancy. she was a much wanted baby and will always be your daughter and sibling to your other childre. xxx this kind of discusdion is difficult to.have and makes me.uncomfortable as its not something i can image having to do but i do think if we take away womens right to bodily autonomy then that us a slippery slope. i also think it is wrong that currently we can legally abort a disabled baby as tho they are somehow lesscworthy of life, that is very wrong. so we need the same rule for all, howevwr unpalatable that may be and i really dont think it is something that women would do lightly.

god i am crap at typing on my phone apologies .

Sauvignon the 'medicine' she bought was just standard induction of labour stuff

blackberryice I don't think you need to be wailing and gnashing your teeth to be in a bad mental state, her 'coldness' is probably a sign of her being close to the edge.
I said it earlier and I'll say it again this woman has been through a hideous experience - whether she has carried out a deliberate act or something went wrong for her she must have been, and still be, in a horrendous place. Prison won't help her or anyone. She must be ill.

But chip I think what we are trying to say is that if your relative has that choice, all women should have it.
Late abortion is either wrong or it is not.
If we talk about it being immoral for non-disabled babies but understandable for disabled babies, we are immediately making a clear judgement about how we see disability.

I have always found it incredible that even some of the most passionate anti abortionists are happy to add the caveat 'unless the baby is disabled'
(I don't been you,I mean generally)

If a woman has a late abortion I think it is a tragedy if the baby is disabled or not. It's a tragedy for the woman who has had to make the decision because I cannot believe it is one that is made lightly and without turmoil.

A late abortion must be a horrible ordeal.
This is not a moral judgement, it must be physically awful.

These threads are always difficult. Women who have terminated late for medical reasons feel judged.i am not doing that. I would never do that.

I am judging our culture and the way it views disability.

I am very greatful I have never been in such a dreadful position.

Yes, blackberry but that does not provide evidence of an innocent motive.

and again what mrsdevere said.

The judge has stated that she is not mentally ill please stop saying she must be Mentally illness is totally misunderstood. This makes me so angry.

She is just an evil bitch. At best she will have a Personality Disorder which is not a mental illness! People with PDs can suffer from mental illness, but this woman is not mentally ill.

She was not mentally ill!!!
From what i can gather from reading the story, it was premeditated as she deliberately ordered the medication from the internet and took it when her boyfriend was away so as not for him to find out.
Someone that is mentally ill doesn't plan things in such a way, she is clearly an evil nasty person.

I suppose as humans we don't want to believe such evil excists but unfortunetly it does and this piece of scum shows how evil is out there for us to see.
I hope her sentence is increased-first and formost she took a life of a child away instead of having an early abortion or adopted him out.
She chose to kill a baby because it wasn't her boyfriends-only evil does that

I would say you can plan things quite well if you are mentally ill. I was quite capable of buying paracetamol and razor blades when I was falling apart and planning to overdose. It was a few days before I actually did it.

She may not be an evil nasty person and being 'cold' is no proof of anything. Sometimes people in deep distress or in shock appear 'cold'. Remember all those myths about the way rape victims are 'supposed' to act, and every time there's a thread about some violent crime people say 'I'd do X, Y or Z' as if anyone who doesn't react in the way some people think they would in theory must be making it up?

All we know is that she ordered drugs to induce labour and the baby is nowhere to be found. This may be because she's an evil witch, or because she's deeply troubled and not thinking straight, or mentally ill - who knows, certainly not any of us.

A mentally ill person would not have been able to have undergone such a stressful experience and kept it together afterwards. The stress would have caused a breakdown. This woman has remained cool, calm and collected throughout. Yes, you can plan things whilst you're ill, but keeping it together to this extent would be impossible. What she has done has all the signs of being psychopathic behaviour. Psycopathy is not a mental illness.

I don't understand why others who cause the death of a baby in the womb don't get treated like this

edam the judge has stated that she is not mentally ill. If there was any doubt, she would have been sent to a secure psychiatric unit.

Because there is a massive, massive difference between a first trimester abortion and the death of a full term baby who was apparently "stillborn".