Save the Children launches appeal for children in the UK

[Vagaceratops]

BBC link

And it will get worse :(

I was playing on the assumption most people have about the poor (that they've wasted their money on fags and wide screen tellys ).

It's not a relevant argument IMO, because even if it is true - it isn't the kids fault.

Being from America, believe me, you do not want to use their methods of addressing the problems of poverty and, more particularly, poverty among those in employment. Appalling and disgusting.

It is totally wrong IMO to punish children from their parents actions. Yes, some parents are shit with money and that's why their DC are in poverty, giving them LESS to live on, which is largely what the WRB has done isn't going to magically make them better at dealing with money!

But you are missing the point. WE are not punishing the children of those parents who are shit with money. Their parents are!

So firstly in that situation, I do not see the right solution is to hand over more money because the parent is 'shit with money'. I class that firmly as pouring good money after bad.

Noone is suggesting giving LESS money. Just not giving them any more.

Labour's record on reducing child poverty was a misguided but well intentioned attempt which ultimately failed.

I agree expat. There is much I love about America. Their welfare & healthcare system are not what I would like to see in the UK at all.

Can we have a discussion on this without bringing starving African/Brazilian children into it? And without benefit bashing?

The distinction between relative poverty and absolute poverty is totally irrelevant to the children who have to wear 3 layers to keep warm at home.

We don't live in Brasil or Africa, we live in UK. In one of the richest countries in the world, and yet parents are going without food to feed their children. Why do we get to call ourselves part of the 'developed world'?

I don't think that we should be 'throwing money' at the poor. I think that the government should be doing more to create jobs, to lower childcare costs and improve housing conditions.

Standing by and doing nothing is punishing children. It might not bother you, but it bothers me.

As I explained above, the welfare reform bill as well as service reductions have meant that many poor people have less in their pocket at the same time as price increases for various essentials (like food and power). In real terms, poor people have been getting less recently and will continue to do so.

Labour didn't 'ultimately fail' they missed their target but numbers were reduced.

I wondered how long it would be before someone trotted out the 'food vouchers' argument. Having lived on benefits once for seven months, I would have found vouchers:
(a) next to useless - I want to choose where to spend my money. Do you think the man with the cheap greengrocery stall will take food vouchers, or will it be food giants like Tesco who will reap the benefits probably possibly even exploiting the system for their own benefit?
(b) Impractical. Who is to judge how much of my weekly budget is needed for food in any given week and how much on things like using a launderette, paying bus fares, etc. (Or are launderette vouchers and bus passes going to be handed out, too?)
(c) Demeaning. Why not just ask people to wear a big Yellow 'S' for scrounger on their clothes so that they can be easily stigmatised.

And as for Complexo (although she did say she was going...) So TheJoyfulPuddlejumper why are you so angry if you are not a feckless claimant and people here are bashing feckless claimants???
Ever heard of empathy? I'm not a 'feckless claimant'. Have worked and paid taxes for around 30 years now in a variety of jobs. I'm angry, too, about the poverty in this country and the way claimants are vilified. Why do you think you need to be a claimant yourself to have sympathy for those less well-off than yourself?

They have an immense problem with working poverty, with tens of millions in full-time employment. This stems from not paying a living wage by a long shot.

But there is something very wrong when one of the wealthiest nations on the planet has tens of millions in full-time employment who rely on charity/food banks to eat and cannot access basic healthcare.

Exactly, MMeLindor.

mme Lindor I don't think that we should be 'throwing money' at the poor. I think that the government should be doing more to create jobs, to lower childcare costs and improve housing conditions.

Yes. This is the crux of it. More jobs are required, especially ones that are paid adequately and don't require top-ups via tax credits.
Childcare costs are astronomical. (Luckily I don't need these any more now DD is 15!) It's ridiculous how much you need to earn just to cover this one essential outgoing.
Housing - better and more affordable housing is needed.

I'll add one more thing - I don't think utility companies should be allowed to make sky high profits while so many people are living in fuel poverty. It's immoral that some people have to choose between heating and food.

What a desperately awful thread.
I simply cannot believe some of these comments...
I agree with mmelindor.
Being very very poor sucks.
For anyone.
But for young children it can begin a cycle of deprivation that is impossible to get out of.
Where is the compassion in this thread? The empathy for others less fortunate than yourself?
:(

Fuel companies, utility companies, rail companies...come on....every company that was privatised was basically given a license to print money by the thatcher govt and drive up prices.
And this is the harvest we reap.
:(

Every time a thread like this appears the right wing contingent get more and more vile.

More pop out of the woodwork.

It's awful.

I was just going to post, 'Exactly, Expat'.

I agree expat. I work, but don't earn much. My salary covers mortgage, electricity, gas, water, TV licence, insurances, council tax.
It does not cover food, clothes or petrol. Without tax credits I would be stuffed (well, in a few years' time when my daughter reaches 18 I'll be able to experience it for real!)
Why aren't wages higher? My pay hasn't increased for more than 5 years now but my outgoings have increased enormously. There is a real problem with income distribution in this country. It is ridiculous that people in blue-collar or white-collar jobs need state subsidy while the companies they work for announce record profits.

I agree, Glitter. It is horrible to see some of the empathy free posts on this thread.

I used to pay about ?300 for full time childcare for 2 DC in Germany. A month. Opening hours 7.30am to 4.30pm. Children from 3 to 6yo.

I would rather they cut child tax credits and offered subsidised state childcare - much more efficient cause the nurseries do not have to make a profit. They just need to break even.

That wasn't aimed at you Tewi

What a God awful thread. Some of you really have no idea about the real world and the horribly desperate conditions some people are forced to live in, in this country

Oh but people in this coutry aren't as poor as other people around the world so we should just leave them to suffer until it gets really, really bad and then maybe help should be offered.

And you complexo why don't you crawl back under whatever disgusting slimey rock it was you crawled out from under. You nasty, racist, lying excuse for a human being.

I agree they should cut child tax credits and provide heavily subsidised childcare. Both aren't sustainable together, and we need to remember that it costs money to provide high quality childcare. The people that work in childcare deserve a better wage too. It irritates me that people complain about the cost of childcare. Childcare should be the one thing we don't begrudge a penny of. Complain about the high cost of gas, petrol, electricity, housing, tax, but not childcare.

Personally, I think it's wages that need to catch up. I'm 46 now. When I was 20, I worked as a secretary, earning £12,000 p.a. I see secretarial/admin jobs advertised at that now, and we're down in the Home Counties, where wages are supposedly higher.

DH works 48 hours a week, and I work 16 hours in an office job and do 10 hours registered childminding, so that I can actually be around to take and collect our dc from school. So 74 hours a week between us. And we're only just over the 17K poverty line. We live in a tiny house; a fair portion of our wages goes on the mortgage, we do not have smartphones, our television is the size of a laptop screen and we got most of our furniture from Freegle/Freecycle. We shop at Lidl and Iceland and use Ebay for children's clothes and shoes.

We do get some tax credits, but in my opinion, the tax credits are simply subsidising the employers and letting them get away with paying these appalling wages.

i agree employers should pay liviable wages but if they were forced to they would nt make much profit and have to lay people off so would become a vicious cycle i also agree childcare should be heavily subsidised enabling more people to work as for foreigners coming over taking all our jobs because of our ludicrous benefits system some families are better off not working i just do not get this at all.

Remember that most people are employed in the UK in businesses the size of mine - 5 or fewer employees and those companies simply in the current climate unless orders rise would not be able to pay higher wages. Our competitors are using labour in India and China at much lower rates.

We need a much smaller state and low flat taxes to attract business here so we can start to do well again as a nation. In most employers if they do well want their staff to benefit too (I've usually been fairly generous with people working for me) so if we can just get companies to do better, get orders, compete well with competitors abroad then things will get better again.

Well Xenia, you're constantly going on about how much you earn and yet "'unless orders rise [companies like the one you work for] wouldn't be able to pay higher wages".

Well how about spreading it about a bit then?

The US govt gave out $800 pre-paid creditcards after katrina... Some ended up in Louis Vuitton. (you can Google the rest).

Throwing money at adults does not ensure the well being of children.

I would question someone who is unable to push a Hoover but can drive a car.

I am not loaded, but I'm trying to change that and I'm sure attitude helps!