Save the Children launches appeal for children in the UK

[Vagaceratops]

BBC link

And it will get worse :(

I don't think we can police the problem by dictating what people can spend their benefits/tax credits on - some of these people who have problems would just trade or sell their goods in order to gain cash to buy what they want to buy.

Also, if you police people on benefits/assistance there is the issue of equality - what about the naice parents who earn their own cash, then feed their kids rubbish, don't get them to excercise and stick them in a room with a telly and all the other electrical stuff they want then ignore them? Surely they would need an equal level of policing to ensure the children had an equal right to good care.

People need to take responsibility for themselves and their choices - and as a society we need to understand the reasons for poverty and how ADULTS can become more self-sufficient and self-managing (so as they wouldn't mess up the budget/make what others would consider to be poor choices and they could care for and feed their kids)

Trouble is this solution isn't cheap - bit like proper care in the community - it costs time and money...much easier to just chuck a bit of charity money at it or some more benefits, then we ALL feel better...

and forgetting the drugged up, boozing, feckless types for a minute, what about the working poor?? the people who due to a redundancy or just down to the fact that the increase in the price of petrol and food means that their rainy day money is now used instead of putting it aside to cover for additional expenses - eg broken central heating or whatever?? Who can no longer get credit due to change in circumstances and the credit crunch? And so who end up borrowing from the Provident woman entering a cycle where the repayments on that mean that choices have to be made re what is cut back on and when you have cut back on all but essentials then food, heat, basic clothing are all that's left to cut back on.

banana - I hate the current payday loan companies, as well as the doorstop lenders. Impossible APR rates - ought to be illegal!

We need credit unions and communities.

oh and food banks are great.

what some people seem to think

Oh for fucks sake, shut up about people on benefits forcing their children to eat cadbury eggs.

It's bloody simple, raise the minimum wage, if it was an acceptable level where a full time job actually paid the bills, it would wipe out tonnes of benefit spending at a stroke, 40% of households in London alone get HB, you can't tell me they are all unemployed.

By rasing the basic wage to a point where it covers all costs, not only will it save a fortune on top up benefits, leaving more money in the pot for other things such as subserdisd childcare for low paid workers it will also lead to wage increases in line with the NMW across many sectors who can afford it having the knock on effect of.....

Increased wages leading to more people paying higher rates of tax thus increasing the pot further.

Fewer people needing help with childcare.

Fewer families having to have two incomes, which in turn will lead to more stay at home mums and dads, freeing up jobs to be filled by others thus bringing down the total number of unemployed, less benefits paid out, more tax paid in etc.

Benefits aren't necessarily high enough to feed children. Many people aren't entitled to benefits, including those working for low wages.

I don't understand how one can champion being independent from the State, then suggesting that the State take over the actual provision of food for poorer children...

I agree with posters saying that blaming the 'feckless poor' or those on benefits is a complete distraction from the real issues.

No it's not as simple as raising the minimum wage at all. Otherwise the government could raise the minimum wage to £1000 a day and we'd all be rich right?

Most employees are employed by small businesses who would really struggle to pay a big rise in the minimum wage. The large companies who are making a lot of money like Tesco would probably be able to absorb a fair bit but then under pressure from shareholders to maintain profits they'd be tempted to shed jobs.

Call centres....they'd probably start offshoring again.

And what about all those large firms who are not making loads of money? The Comet/Currys & HMV's of the world? A large jump in the minimum wage would probably push them under.

Foreign companies and multinational's would bypass the UK completely and invest elsewhere since the UK would be seen to be uncompetitive against our EU/world competitors.

It's a completely naive assumption that wages can be raised significantly simply by the wave of a pen. To raise wages we need a very competitive economy where our employees are sought after. We need better education/training and high tech manufacturing & services to come into the country.

If it really were that simple why has no government (of any party) thought to do it!?!?!?

Otherwise the government could raise the minimum wage to £1000 a day and we'd all be rich right?
Nobody is suggesting that.

Ha ha ha - so if everyone is just given more money/higher wages, suddenly we will all be great at budgetting and feeding / caring for our children and ourselves...ROFL...

I look forward to my payrise - therefore increasing my ability to cope with the day to day grind, so I no longer require sensory deprivation on MN...

or wine...

or coffee...

Well Gideon, the theory is the same isn't it? Those who are saying the answer is simply to pay people more are not understanding how businesses work.

They make the assumption that all businesses make vast profits and are run by fat cat millionaire tax dodgers.

In fact small businesses employ the most people. Most will be making a modest profit and any increases in wages will either force them out of business or passed onto the customer. The latter would in turn mean any wage increase is eroded and in x months time we'd see the same thread here demanding another rise in the minimum wage.

Friends of mine have recently opened up a restaurant. They've employed a number of people, most of whom are on minimum wage. Financially it's teetering on the edge as with most new start ups. They're struggling massively. A significant rise in the NMW would definitely send them over the edge. The result is everyone would lose their jobs and they'd have to go bankrupt.

Before we had a minimum wage there were people arguing that businesses were free to exploit people and pay them a wage which you couldn't live off. Then we got the minimum wage and now strangely it's still not enough and now people are demanding a 'living wage'. Forgive my skepticism that a 'living wage' would soon prove to be insufficient as well and we'd want a 'realistic wage' next.

DarkesteyeswithflecksofgoldSat 08-Sep-12 21:09:55

As Dont said a bit of thanks woud be nice instead of thinking everyone is just resentful particularly for those of us who are full time working single mothers who don't have savings etc.

Xenia if it was a claimant saying this or someone on lower wages and/or tax credits youd be saying that they cant manage their money properl

XeniaMon 10-Sep-12 11:41:06

The probloem is that the benefits are high enough to feed chidlren but parents do not manage money well (often not their fault, they have a heap of problems, drugs, alcohol, or just inability to balance a budget, not very bright etc) so one solution is that food is given out. Another route to feed children is a free school breakfast and meal at 5 after homework supervsion at school not just a free school lunch so all meals are at school and you have zero access to chocolate and junk food.

Point proven.

XeniaMon 10-Sep-12 09:08:14

Many can be a minority. Many does not mean most. I think an hour studying the OED might be sensible before I award the PhD in Xenia posts.

Many can be a minority? Oh my God are you rewriting the whole of the Oxford English dictionary or just the parts that suit your agenda.
Someone phone them because theyve obviously got this meaning wrong along with the meaning of the word "volunteer".

Someone wants a shovel to dig themselves out of this ditch....

Darkeye / Xenia - not sure who said what but you CAN have many yet still be in the minority.

Many British people are Welsh, yet Welsh people are in the minority.

Of course its not that simple Sun. If the minimum wage was raised significantly enough to wipe out the need for top up tax credits, that money would then need to be found by the small/medium business' that are already paddling like fuck. In that instance we would have to let either either our apprentice or labourer go. How does that help growth and a return to calmer waters?

buttermintoes The NMW is irrelevant - what really matters is take home pay. At the moment, someone working a 40 hour week at NMW rates pays around £1500 NI & Income Tax. If they were allowed to keep ALL of the money they earned they wouldn't need to claim as many tax credits (even less if you let them keep the employers NIC's too). Business like yours and mine would be, at worst, unaffected or, at best, better off because of streamlining all that bloody paperwork.

The state could get rid of one layer of expensive bureaucrats who take money off poor people and another layer of expensive bureaucrats who give money back to poor people - this saves us all money, guarantees that those who try and play the game and work their way out of poverty are the ones who benefit the most and is cheap to implement.

It's the vested interests of the 'big statists', the likes of the public sector unions and the bureaucracy themselves who stop this from happening.

Fuck how business works, clearly the minimum wage is not fit for purpose if those on it need to claim top up benefits to live.

Where is the incentive to work if you do so full time and are still stuck jumping tho the benefits systems hoops.

If small businesses can't afford to pay staff a living wage then they can group together and lobby the council's and government for cheaper rents and less tax, after all they don't mind letting people like Vodafone not pay rent on there stores in oxford street, don't mind arcadia group tax dodging.

Was just responding to Sun's delightfully naive and simplistic solution to the problem Judgey . I've already said earlier that raising the level of personal allowances before tax is the way to go as far as I can see.

Fuck how business works

Fuck how business works

Yeah cos what could possibly go wrong eh?

I assume it will be all the govt's fault when people are made redundant, tax revenues drop and price inflation goes through the roof.

Yeah...let's not worry about how business works at all.......As long as we wave that magic wand eh?

So let's just carry on ignoring the fact the minimum wage isn't enough to live on and billions is spent every year on top up benefits for those in work then.

Let's all just completely ignore how stupid that is.

lobby the council's and government for cheaper rents and less tax,

...and of course this wouldn't lead to howls of Tory bastards looking out for the rich at all would it.

"So let's just carry on ignoring the fact the minimum wage isn't enough to live on and billions is spent every year on top up benefits for those in work then.

Let's all just completely ignore how stupid that is."

Exactly! - you're talking sense SunWukong.