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Save the Children launches appeal for children in the UK

829 replies

Vagaceratops · 05/09/2012 10:45

BBC link

And it will get worse :(

OP posts:
SmellsLikeTeenStrop · 08/09/2012 14:54

But that's only part of the story,

From the article I linked.

''This is all part of a long term trend. In the last thirty years the share of the national income going to wages and salaries fell, while the proportion going to profits rose. If the share had increased at the same rate as national income, incomes in the middle would now be nearly £3,000 higher.''

Darkesteyeswithflecksofgold · 08/09/2012 15:35

chocolate or alcohol or drugs or cigarettes cannot always just stop. However we can ensure that healthy living is cheap and easy and could ensure that all processed foods are very highly taxed to encourage the poor to eat the wholefoods such as carrots and tinned fish that the rich eat and which keep the rich at healthy weights.

You mean like Ken Clarke and Eric Pickles Xenia!

mam29 · 08/09/2012 15:40

I think shared tax allowance for couples is good and would mean we better off as im at home raising our 3young children.

it would benefit any couples where one works no matter what income they on.

I think tax credits complicate things.

i grew up when tehre was none in single parent family we dident starve.we had clothes, rood over heads .

all we doing with tax credits is subsidising companies who pay low wages.

unemployement may have dropped but lots of jobs are temporary and part time, low hours not enough.

Also c4 had programme about job seekers if tehy come off jsa start job the they let go it can take 6-8weeks for benefits to restart causing hardship as systems not fast enough.

twoGoldfingerstoGideon · 08/09/2012 16:05

LMFAO at the idea of rich people sitting down to dine on a nice tin of fish with some carrots on the side.

lovechoc · 08/09/2012 16:11

Eat your sardines up Ken Clarke!

buttermintoes · 08/09/2012 16:44

Look, I haven't got time or energy to play tit for tat statistic quoting. I have no vested interest in championing the cause of the very rich, I'm sure there are some unscrupulous bastards, but I can only state my opinion that it is wrong to damn people just because they happen to be wealthy. Time and time again I see vile language used to vilify a whole swathe of people you know nothing about and who pay VAST amounts into the nations treasury. Yes, they earn vast amounts but why shouldn't they? As long as their business' are legal and above board, why shouldn't they reap the benefits? No doubt you will say they got rich from the sweat of their minimum wage workers, but the minimum wage is an accepted base level. What would those workers do if at some earlier point their employers (or their predecessors) hadn't taken a massive risk and gone balls out to build a new business? They wouldn't have any wage at all PLUS the government coffers would be a damn sight lighter without the massive 60% hit(when you factor in NI and stuff) the taxman takes from the mega earners wages. Would that have been better?
My DH, having worked a full week, has been out since 10AM this morning chasing up new enquiries (none of which are guaranteed to result in in jobs). I have spent the afternoon drawing up estimates from last weeks enquiries, which we have spent three evenings this week pricing up ? again, with no guarantee that they will result in work. Both our DS's have been out all afternoon posting fliers through doors. Tomorrow, we have the books to do and on Monday the whole chabang starts again. Over the years we have bought all our plant and hand tools, paid all the public liability insurances etc, been robbed of a van load of hand-tools (twice) only to be told that our all cover actually didn't so we had to replace them again and again. We have built our reputation over the years and were able to employ an apprentice, a labourer and another skilled builder as well as provide work experience to kids from the local comp every year. As I mentioned before, there have been times over the last couple of years when, having paid the others, we have not been able to risk drawing any money ourselves because we weren't sure what the future held. Are you telling me that when the wheel turns again, as it surely will, we will not be entitled to enjoy the very hard earned fruits of our efforts and sacrifices?
Obviously, we are very much little league, but this is how business' are built, through somebodies gumption, blood, sweat and tears. So what if it was somebodies great grandfather who took the plunge rather than the fortunate descendent, it's still their business.

The thing about leftie policies that really sticks in my throat is that it always involves spending other peoples money.

Xenia · 08/09/2012 16:55

Yes, butterm. Yes, that is how it is for most of us who build up businesses. I don't really expect any thanks for the tax I pay (although I really think it could make a difference to people if they were thanked) but I do think the higher upper tax rates are (Hollande in France seems to be back tracking this week a bit on his new 75% upper rate) the more you damage a country and the more effort people put into lawfully avoiding tax (and a few who illegally evade it). If you think the rate is fair and right as 40% tax and NI seemed to be then people just get on with working very hard ofte 7 days a week whilst giving 40% back to the state plus what we all pay in direct taxes, VAT, council tax of £3k a year etc etc, but not the current 52% tax and NI (or effective 60%+ if you add in loss of all personal allowances) - that is so high (albeit it coming down by 5% in due course) you lose your incentive to bother to earn the extra money.

Anyway on the poor here is today's article from the telegraph about the Report and issue:

Charity shouldn?t begin at home for Save the Children
The state of childhood in Britain is woeful ? but poverty is not to blame, whatever Save the Children might claim
The Save the Children advert focuses on families living in 'poverty?. But Britain's problem is an ever more deeply entrenched cultural one, of state-encouraged, if not promoted, ignorance, dependence and cultural degradation
The Save the Children advert focuses on families living in 'poverty'. But Britain's problem is an ever more deeply entrenched cultural one, of state-encouraged, if not promoted, ignorance, dependence and cultural degradation

By Anthony Daniels

8:08PM BST 07 Sep 2012

Comments314 Comments

In 1909 the infant mortality rate in the London borough in which my father was born was 124 per thousand: that is to say, one in eight children died before their first birthday. A hundred years later, the national figure was less than one in two hundred.

Since the infant mortality rate is generally taken as being proportional to raw physical need or impoverishment, it might look as though these have been abolished in Britain (there will always be some children who die, of course). So on the face of it, this seems an odd time for the Save the Children Fund to announce that it is mounting a campaign to save the children of Britain ? all the more so as there are countries in the world in which the infant mortality rates are similar to those of the East End of London when my father was born.

Since there is an explanation for everything, there is an explanation for Save the Children?s announcement: but as we shall see, saving the children has nothing to do with it. The explanation has more to do with the moral, financial and political corruption of our charity sector, in which employment grew by 19 per cent between 2001 and 2010, while employment in the private sector fell by 4 per cent.

First, however, let me state that there are no grounds for complacency about the condition of Britain?s children. More than one survey has shown that in many respects they are the worst brought up and unhappiest in the Western world; and while I would not normally place much credence in such surveys, in this case their findings coincide with the most obvious casual observation.

British children are by far the fattest in Europe (three times as many of them as in France are truly obese), and even among the fattest in the world. A very high percentage of them never, or only very rarely, eat a meal at a table with other members of their family ? or perhaps I should say household. Indeed, there is often no table at which they could eat such a meal if it ever occurred to anyone to provide them with one.

When I entered such a home ? as I often did as a doctor ? I discovered no evidence that cooking had ever taken place in it, beyond reheating of prepared food in the microwave. The children did not so much eat meals as forage or graze, more or less ad libitum. One of the most elementary forms of civilised social intercourse was therefore alien to them.

Meanwhile, down the road, there were Indian shops selling fresh vegetables so cheap that you could hardly carry away all you could buy for £10 ? the cost of 30 cigarettes. It goes without saying that the homes of which I speak were plentifully supplied with flat television screens, some of them as wide as the sky, and almost always illuminated.

The pattern of child-rearing in Britain is all too often that of a toxic combination of overindulgence and neglect. First a child is bribed into silence, or at least minimal compliance, by being given what it wants; then, when it is old enough to demand rather than request, it does so. A higher proportion of parents in Britain end up frightened of their own children than anywhere else known to me ? I never saw it in Africa, where I lived for several years. And it is not only their parents who are frightened of them: who these days dares to tell children to behave themselves in a public place? Old people shrink away from them in fear; I have not seen this in other countries.

About a fifth of our children leave school unable to read or write fluently. This is not the consequence of poverty: on average, at least £50,000 will have been spent on their education. No doubt bad schools, bad teachers, and bad teaching methods have a part to play. But it cannot be easy to be a teacher of children whose parents, or parent and latest lover, will take the child?s part in any disciplinary dispute because of their egotistical belief that anything that emerges from them must be above reproach.

Despite the catastrophically low educational level in many parts of this country, there has never been a demonstration, much less a riot, with slogans such as: ''We demand that our children be properly taught.?? Many parents ? to judge by their actual conduct ? think it is more important for children to have the latest Manchester United strip than that they should be able to read well. Our state does very little to supply the deficiency.

By the end of his childhood, a youngster is considerably more likely to have a television in his bedroom than a father living at home. The combination of family instability and a vulgar, celebrity-obsessed, low-IQ and all but inescapable popular culture (of which, incidentally, the BBC?s website for home consumption is clearly a manifestation), means that British children lead the western world in many forms of self-destructive as well as unattractive behaviour.

But none of this is poverty, properly so-called: it is squalor, mental, emotional, moral, psychological, cultural and often, as a result, physical too. But to call it poverty is actually to make it worse, in so far as it misidentifies the problem and fosters the very culture of dependency that brings so much of it about in the first place.

In Africa, I saw nothing like it, at least in the rural areas, neither the neglect nor the overindulgence. And this was in areas of real poverty, where the food supply was uncertain and cigarettes were sold by the puff if they were available at all, and where any fever might lead to death in a day.

I hope I have made it clear that I have no doubt that there is a real problem with childhood in Britain, but poverty of the kind that Save the Children was nominally set up to combat is not that problem. It is an ever more deeply entrenched cultural problem, of state-encouraged, if not promoted, ignorance, dependence and cultural degradation.

But what of Save the Children? The first thing to say about it is that, like so many charities in Britain today, it is not a charity, at least not in the normal sense of the word. It is part of the charitable-bureaucratic complex that is to modern Britain what the military-industrial complex was to Eisenhower?s America. Like most bureaucracies, it is there to serve itself.

It spent £88 million on humanitarian assistance in 2009 and £58 million on staff wages (it was far from the worst in this respect: the Child Poverty Action Group spent £1,551,000 of its income of £1,990,000 on wages). In 2009, its chief executive was paid £137,608 which, while not vast by the standards of commercial chief executives, was more than six times the median British wage at the time. This is certainly not what individual donors might think or hope their money is spent on; and it is certainly not what I think charity is. Fourteen of its staff earned more than £60,000, and 150 between £30,000 and £40,000. The ?charity? operated a fixed-benefit pension scheme. Its charity clearly began at home.

Save the Children spends about £500,000 a year on efforts in this country; local government makes donations to it of about £500,000. The largest donor to the charity by far in 2009 was the Government, at £19 million. The European Union chipped in with another £12 million, the US government with £11 million. Private donations have been going down as a proportion of the charity?s total income (and the expenses of fund-raising are equal to 31 per cent of the funds actually raised), while government contributions have been rising. The chief executive is Justin Forsyth, fresh from having been Gordon Brown?s communications and campaigns director.

Large charities in Britain are increasingly in hock to the government and its bureaucratic machinery, with its statist outlook, and even share the same vocabulary. When I looked on one website advertising charity jobs, I found 21 with salaries between £50,000 and £80,000, with titles such as corporate development manager. Is this really what the old ladies who volunteer at charity shops think they are raising money for?

Save the Children is not trying to save the children of Britain, it is trying to save the jobs in the British welfare bureaucracy"

Darkesteyeswithflecksofgold · 08/09/2012 17:02

I bet if Save the Children were participating in workfare the Torygraph and certain other sections of the press would be humming a different tune!

buttermintoes · 08/09/2012 17:17

Hello, Xenia, I'm very pleased to meet you.
You know sometimes, I wish labour had won the last election, just so they would have had to sweep up their own mess. Their tactics were just despicable, promising new schools willy nilly that they knew would have to be pulled, raising the top rate of tax knowing the Tories would have to reduce it and they could then squawk Tory cronyism , PFI hospitals they made out they'd built.
"There's no money left"? some joke.

CommunistMoon · 08/09/2012 17:28

^Never mind, see you again in 2015 Wink

buttermintoes · 08/09/2012 17:32

Grin I only said sometimes Moon.

alemci · 08/09/2012 17:37

Butter mintoes i can relate to what you are saying. particularly the last line of your post.

you need movers and shakers in society but this seems to be despised and kids are almost discouraged from being competitive.

the Anthony Daniels piece also makes interesting reading. it isn't really material poverty it seems but poverty of aspiration and drive.

SunWukong · 08/09/2012 18:27

Oh what a load of shit that article is, yet more bullshit shouting scroungers without any justification for such things.

Large TVs and gadgets are often a reflection of guilt, the parents can't afford to spend quality time with the kids give them the things others have and know they have no hope of ever getting what the media tells us to aspire to (home ownership, a car, branded goods etc).

The fact people haven't got a clue how to cook meals buy things from brighthouse not understanding how much the repayments truly cost and are hoodwinked by lenders left right and centre into a life time of paying back loans and higher interest is a testimony to our education system.

the rot started long ago you can't blame todays teenagers for being barely able to write and unable to cook when the parents are the same, parents brought up at a time when it was perfectly acceptable to use a calculator in class and when home economics was abolished, right about the same time (1970+) that woman where expected to go out and work to earn a crust as well as the men, theres only so many hours in the day you expect the schools to teach them all they need for life.

Look at me I'm 33 I spell better then a lot of other people I know, my parents where old when they had me (my dads nearly 80, mu mum in her mid 70's), I can add up better then my sister, spell better then her or my brother, I can cook my own food and I know what APR means.

I never went to school, thats the difference between me and my ignorant older bother and sister, my mum never bothered sending me I spent my childhood going round the natural history and london transport museums, being taught how to add up with a tub of pennies and cooking in the kitchen, while the others where expected to learn all that from school.

school has failed this country for many years, yet no one is willing to help, they just point fingers and insult others less fortunate then themselves while feeling smug about it.

Bilbobagginstummy · 08/09/2012 18:38

Someone alluded above to Oxfam.
policy-practice.oxfam.org.uk/our-work/poverty-in-the-uk is the link to their work in the UK.

They had an open day at Oxfam HQ today - and a talk about their work in the UK. I wasn't at the talk - was anyone?

twoGoldfingerstoGideon · 08/09/2012 18:53

That article is a load of bigoted old Tory twaddle. Is it absolutely de rigeur to mention flat screen televisions and fags when slagging off writing an opinion piece about the lower classes? How very unoriginal of him.

Xenia · 08/09/2012 19:51

I am not into the politics of blame. I think more people need a sense of personal responsibility. If your school is failing a child teach it at home.

We need more givers and fewer takers.

TudorJess · 08/09/2012 21:00

"The thing about leftie policies that really sticks in my throat is that it always involves spending other peoples money."

That's because many of the haves of this world are sadly too greedy to autonomously share with the have-nots.

Darkesteyeswithflecksofgold · 08/09/2012 21:04

That article is disgusting.

morethanpotatoprints · 08/09/2012 21:12

Xenia.

If we do teach our dcs at home whilst the other parent works, you tell us that our tax credit should be abolished and we should work. Read your past posts about my choice of lifestyle.

Rosebud05 · 08/09/2012 21:37

Xenia's arguments are equally as vapid about 'givers, not takers'.

People who work as teachers, nurses, refuse collectors, nursery nurses, nannies etc etc give far more than they take, yet Xenia criticises them (or accuses them of having a 'low IQ') for not earning £100K, not going back to work when their babies were hours old etc etc.

The economic system works as it does because there are some at the top and some at the bottom. Through luck and circumstance, not hard work and 'IQ'.

bb99 · 08/09/2012 23:11

Sun

I think the people who go to school do actually have to engage in the process in order to benefit from even a satisfactory education...

A friend of mine chooses to teach in tough schools and she has also spent a year teaching in Australia.

The biggest difference she found was not in the teaching quality, although the curriculums are different, but in the pupils.

Aussie pupils were self motivated, co-operative and there (at school) to learn, not to muck about and the same cannot be said for many of the British pupils she somehow drags through public exams. The British kids seem to have more of an attitude that it should all be done for them...and their parents do too. When asked what is the most important person in the list of teacher, parent, headteacher, pupil, in order to get good learning, most people would say TEACHER, when infact it is the PUPIL who is atleast equally important. The pupil MUST engage in the process, theyare not empty vessels to be filled...

I am also interested in child poverty as there are some kids in the UK who don't have enough to eat and are terribly neglected, but not so badly neglected that they are taken from their parents. I asked another friend who fosters why she thought some of the kids wound up with her and why there were kids who weren't cared for well. Surely it was the money? (Though I struggle with this idea, having survived single parenthood on income support some years ago) Not enough of it surely? She pointed out that some parents whose children live in poverty choose, for whatever reason, to spend their money unwisely, possibly on a drug or alcohol dependancy, or a shopping habit, or just can't financially manage it. Plus there hasn't been a debate about what actually CAUSES poverty, it just gets money thrown at it, which has not, so far, resolved the problem.

We need to find the causes of poverty before it can actually be resolved. And in the UK I do mean relative poverty.

theboneperson · 09/09/2012 09:00

Sorry, got to jump in here and have a little rant.

I think one of the major problems in this country is selfishness - or 'Western Individualism' if you want to give it a posh name. It's all about 'me, me, me' and in some cases, this 'me, me, me' attitude means that some parents are not prepared to make sacrifices for their children.

My dh is from a middle eastern country, where I lived with him for some years. When one of our British friends moved out into one of the outlying villages, she found that the family who lived below her, who had absolutely nothing (disabled child being wheeled around in a tattered old pushchair for example) left fresh veg from their garden on her doorstep every day. These people, as I said, had nothing, and yet they still cared enough about their new neighbour to give what they could.

Here, in some ways, we're all TOO rich - I live in a terrace of 8 houses. None of us are what you'd call well off. But yet each of us has a lawnmower and a hedge-trimmer. In the middle east, you'd find that only one of these houses had a lawnmower, and perhaps another had a hedge-trimmer. Everyone would borrow, and everyone would lend. Thus triggering a bit of friendliness and community spirit. But there's nothing here to trigger that friendliness and community spirit anymore, because we all have it all and we don't want to share.

The riots in London last year were a classic example of how bad this 'Western Individualism' has got.

In fact, Britain has to be one of the only countries where people actually throw bricks through old ladies' windows. Dh is utterly, utterly horrified that old people get mugged etc. It's just not done where he comes from.

There we go - rant over. Sorry if I digress....

Xenia · 09/09/2012 09:07

I certanily agree with thebone. Now it might be said I do a lot of things for nothing (and am pretty silent about it) because I'm fairly well off because I've worked hard etc but we do in a lot of the volunteer stuff I am involved with see people incredulous we'd do something for nothing. We need to change attitidues so people don't think the state owes me more but to think wow I'm so lucky as a single person on benefits - all my rent in a room in a house is paid and I get £53 a week and free prescription charges or whatever it is that that single person would get, rather than oh woe is me, this is too little to eat. And then people think I am prepared to take this hand out for a year but after that I will get a job and if there isn't one here in Hull I will go to London or Australia to look for work. The attitude of some older people in the UK that they will not claim benefits even those to which they are entitled has not much filtered down to younger people.

Rosebud05 · 09/09/2012 09:25

Wow. The communities I live in are FULL of people helping each other out, resident associations, sharing and loaning things, swapping childcare, planting things etc.

I don't think I'm in any sort of unusual situation.

Rosebud05 · 09/09/2012 09:26

Although none of these observations justify the fact that children are going hungry in a wealthy country.

You may not agree with the choices of their parents, but I fail to see why children should suffer any more than they are.