Why do so many of our olympic athletes come from public school?

[ivykaty44]

and what would you do to change it?

Because I am sad I have spent hours today compiling statistics*.

For 2012 Olympic medals, Uk athletes, I can track down so far:

Equestrian: 1 medal event: 1 team of 5, all private or probably private

Cyclists: 4 medal events: 1 mixed team gold, 1 foreign educated, 1 ordinary comp, 1 grammar

Swimming: 2 medals: 1 state; 1 ?

Shooting: 1 indie

Rowing: 6 events: 1 pr all indie; 1 quartet of 3 grammars+1 indie; 1 octet: almost all indie, 1 state 3 ?; Watkins-Grainger pair both state; Alan Campbell same Belfast grammar as others!; Natch+Sash both indie

Men's team bronze in gymnastics: 5 athletes of which 2 comp, 2 ? and 1 mix of comp + HE

Canoeing: 2 team awards, 4 athletes: 1 indie, 1 state, 2 ? (2 mixed teams)

Judo: 1 state

*Actually it's quite interesting how people got into these sports, plenty of them didn't get into rowing-shooting-whatever until University age, anyway. Except for rowers, there's not many at Oxbridge, too. :)

Summary, events,
private educated indiv or team: 5
State ed: 6 including 2 grammar
unknown: 3
mixed state/priv/other: 3

Individuals:
Indie: 16
State: 16 including 5 grammar
?: 10
Foreign: 2

I guess that bears up the 50% claim pretty nicely! :(

I teach in a state (primary) school and agree with many others about taster sessions - they are many and varied and the children love them, but in my experience they very rarely lead to increased participation in particular sports. I think awareness of 'minority' sports (which in the area of London I teach in means virtually anything other than football) is a huge issue, as is the provision and accessibility of sporting facilities outside of school. Our Year 6s thoroughly enjoyed their fencing taster sessions this year - but the nearest fencing club that trains beginners is miles away in central London, and many of the children have no means of getting there.

The school I attended was a highly competitive state grammar. It had acres of playing fields and was excellent academically and in mainstream sports such as football, cricket and hockey, but I had no exposure whatsoever to sports such as rowing, sailing or competitive cycling until I went to university and made friends with students from public schools. These sports just weren't part of the culture at my own school.

Most of the state schools I've taught in (ranging from fairly affluent to extremely deprived) plough most of their meagre sports resources into crowd-pleasing after-school football schemes or playground equipment such as skipping ropes and space hoppers. With obsesity such an issue, the focus is overwhelmingly on getting the children active by any means possible, rather than on competitive sport. Sports' days generally tend to be non-competitive not for ideological reasons but because of logistics, time constraints and the very real potential for things to get nasty if parents disagree with the outcome. I've attended two local sports' days where competitive races led to punch-ups among spectating parents, and both schools concerned have now gone strictly non-competitive!

This all leads to a strange situation where 'sport' in many non-affluent primary schools means 'football'. Football is ultra-competitive and enjoys a kind of special status, while most other sports either fall by the wayside or are seen as 'just a bit of fun'. Many of the girls are either completely switched off, or will participate only in aerobics, dance classes etc. And I imagine that in many cases this becomes even more deeply ingrained when they start secondary school.

Just wanted to add that many schools where I live in London are losing playing fields as a result of the rising pupil numbers. To accommodate the extra children, councils are putting massive pressure on schools to expand to three or even four form entry, which obviously means large-scale building work. This will often be on the existing school field, as most school sites are tightly hemmed in by housing etc. Councils ahave failed to plan ahead, and in their panic they are coercing schools into doing this by witholding funding if they refuse. One school near me now has close to 800 pupils, no field and a minuscule playground originally designed for 300 children.

surely the reason so many athletes in to private school is that they throw scholarships at up and coming athletes already competing rather than the schools creating them. That said there is one oe the GB olympic divers in ds1 class which is a state school

As far as I can make out, Rebecca Addlington went to a state school, so that makes both swimming medals coming from state educated people.

PrettyBird Bellahouston - Glasgow School Of Sport is where I was talking about too and I think a fair few good athletes have went there. My DP went there too but wasn't a school of sport student and apparently the difference in treatment to normal students (non athletes) was crap, which is a shame, other pupils shouldn't be treated differently.

I desperately wanted to go to that school for gymnastics but was told it was too far away, after going to a school 2 minutes from us and getting on badly I ended up at a school further away. Gutted.

Adlington: Brunts school, state school in Mansfield with performing arts specialism, say my notes.
Jamieson I couldn't find info for, so ta 4 that.

okay, here are my other ? people, you clever cogs, find out where they went to school:
Etienne Stott, Richard Hounslow, Max Whitlock, Dan Purvis, Matt Longridge(??), Ric Egington, James Foad.

I didn't even bother to check Zara Philips.

*Bet my numbers don't add up right, I'm doing this with screeching brats around my knees, you know.

SchrodingersMew - I believe that the new headmaster has improved the disjoint between the "ordinary" Bella pupils and those participating in the School of Sport.

Having said that, Bella is the school that ds should have gone to but we chose to do a placing request to Shawlands . In our defence, it is only 5 minutes further walk away - and it played rugby from S1 (one of dh's requirements). We were already planning on sending him there before they got the funding to be an SRU Rugby Academy.

Do other countries draw their athletes from a wider social mix? As far as I am aware, no other countries have private schools to the extent that we do in the UK. If all countries draw the majority/50% of their Olympians from families who are materially advantaged, then you would expect the UK to have a big overlap between private schools and Olympic athletes.

I suspect (and this has probs been said elsewhere) that the sports where the majority of the winning atheletes are privately educated are those requiring lots of expensive equipment- ie boats and horses, guns and expensive cylcles.

Most of the world's population are so poor (subsistence living, living on $1/day) that only the privately educated from rich families could end up aspiring to attend Olympics. So Britain is going to be by no means the worst offender.

I'd just like to point out that I think one of the big reasons that the UK is good at sports like sailing and rowing is because we are an island with plenty of rivers and lakes. If countries with big mountains and lots of snow can have the winter Olympics, we shouldn't feel guilty about being good at sports that involve water.

There are plenty of non-posh rowing and sailing clubs. You do need spare cash to participate, but you don't need to own a boat to have a go, and you certainly don't need to be rich.

If there wasn't so much wall to wall football coverage, maybe people would be more aware that other sports aren't just for posh people.

Here here to the "If there wasn't so much wall to wall football coverage, maybe people would be more aware that other sports aren't just for posh people."

My niece is neither posh nor well-off and goes to a very "ordinary" secondary in a relatively poor part of Glasgow. Yet she is showing tremendous determination in her rowing, despite coming from a family with no rowing background. An awful of of this is having the right mind set and having the luck to come across an inspirational coach.

well done to your niece prettybird!

Do most children do PGL holidays, they cost a fortune. I know primary schools often offer a week taster but that is a short one of burst, very different from a session weekly at a club.

I would say a weekly session of sailing is much more likely to inspire as it shows that the sport can be part of your weekly routine ,

It is cost, I would guess.

My son plays chess. He is very good and has played in several international matches. To get selected for the national team, he has had to show his commitment by playing various major tournaments around the country. Although the entry fees are reasonable, you have to add on the cost of travel, accommodation for longer tournaments or those far away. The British Championships competitions are a week long, for example.
Most players at his level have a private chess coach; he does not because we can't afford it - we can barely afford to get him to these tournaments and he's had to play the bare minimum to qualify.
Our holidays are always at the British Championships: Torquay, Kent University, Sheffield or North Shields on a four yearly cycle. Or DD and I stay home while DH and DS have the holiday.

He's at a private school on a bursary. I doubt a state school would allow him time off to compete or to travel to events.
Chess at this level is dominated by the private schools and always will be for this reason alone.

I have to say, too, that the behaviour of some parents and coaches is shockingly pushy. I have seen children shouted at until they are in tears for losing games. I have seen children as young as 7 entered for multiple competitions at tournaments and pressured to win, to go over and over games after matches. I've seen children who were obviously poorly made to play.
It's very off-putting and I've noticed that many of these children drop out when they're old enough.

I wonder if other sports and activities are similarly affected.

as some people have pointed out some poor people will break through the unfair system Why not have a fairer system?

I think it is strongly dictated by culture, then followed by money.

If you come from a culture where you are up early to train and then go to work or school you will think nothing of spending hours assisting your dc get to training and compete, spending weekends getting homework done on a friday night as the rest of the weekend will be dedicated to sporting events and possibly another activity. It is a way of life rather than a drudge.

I think merrymouse summed it up well with her post Fri 03-Aug-12 12:58:08

There is only one reason that our successful athletes are mostly from public schools. Money. I worked at a girls' school once and there were two girls (sisters) there who were very successful in local athletic competitions - running. The PE teacher tried to get them into the local athletic club but the girls' parents couldn't afford the membership fees and, presumably, travelling costs when competitions were not local.

The PE teacher pleaded with a local charity but got nowhere. I saw them running and I know they would have been nationally or even internationally successful. Facilities are just not there for ordinary people. If they are, no one knows about them.

I forgot to say that two Olympians (early eighties) had been to the same school. Beverley Callender (Goddard) and Simone Jacobs.

RB - how much were the membership fees for the track if the parents couldn't afford them? Track and field is known to be inexpensive and thus not a barrier to lower income families

I think it all boils down to money too.

I bet the majority of the state educated athletes had parents with the financial means to pay for coaching.

Pretty Well done to your niece. :)

I ended up in Hillhead High, I really hated that place. :(