Why do so many of our olympic athletes come from public school?

[ivykaty44]

and what would you do to change it?

Yep, I read somewhere else this morning that football and track & field are the sports with the biggest representation of state school-educated sportspeople.

I would hazard a guess that cycling will rocket in popularity now in that demographic in next few years. Clubs play a huge part in nurturing talent in kids from less affluent backgrounds.

I guess it might also depend on geography too. Our city has a professional Rugby team and they pay a big part in the city's education programmes. We also have a big rowing club that quite a few kids fom my school are involved with (many are certainly not what you'd call well-off).

I have only skimmed the thread.

We live in Central London and none of the local primary schools have any playing fields at all. My DS's prep school (age 4-13) has two sets of playing fields plus tennis courts and an all weather surface. There are 3 full time sports staff plus some of the other staff are keen cricketers etc. Sports day from KS2 onwards is a proper athletics event at a running track with heats and finals, long jump, triple jump etc. All boys are on teams and play fixtures with other schools. The boys do football, rugby, hockey, cricket, basketball, swimming, table tennis, tennis and athletics.

Even the keenest state school teacher is going to struggle to reproduce this level commitment to sport because they don't have access to the same facilities and remember this is only primary level. I suspect that at secondary level the gap in resources is even greater.

If people want more state school pupils involved then you need to give them access to a similar level of resources and coaching.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my impression that most of the sports that Britain do well at aren't played in schools?

Can anybody give a good example (apart from rowing) where a medal winner has been trained at school? Canoeing, judo, cycling, sailing and certainly shooting are mainly club activities.

It is true that there is strong school participation in athletics, swimming, and to an extent gymnastics. However, those who compete at an Olympic level have generally been part of a club from an early age.

Sorry merrymouse but canoeing, sailing and shooting are offered at my DC's independent school. Cycling is also a high profile sport if only for the DofE!

Also, I would say that the barriers to entry for things like sailing and rowing are far lower than many people think. You certainly don't have to own a boat. Many facilities are also run by local councils. The barrier to entry is having parents who are prepared to investigate what is going on,transport you there, not money. (Unless you are in poverty, when obviously money is a barrier to pretty much everything).

OK, I can remember that my brother could choose to go sailing on Wednesday sports afternoons, but this hardly amounted to Olympic training. It was just a taster and didn't really offer anything superior to what you could find on a Saturday morning at many local council run facilities.

(On the other hand the rowers certainly had their eyes on Olympic medals)

Sonnet are your DC's at a day school?

To all intents and purposes, I went to a private school (Direct Grant). It was and still is the county sught after leading school for academic achievement, and was reasonably sporty.

The school played very little part indeed in supporting my rise to county champion, national finalist and international training. I was referred by school to the county athletics club, where I received specialist coaching and training, and trained alonghside high achieveing peers, athletics-wise (the vast majority of whom came from state schools). The school played almost no part. The club did as did my dad, driving me about (including coming home in the middle of family hols to make asure I didn't miss a match), agreeing to buy endless paris of spikes and trainers etc etc.

This whoie thing seems to have started (by gvt) as a 'this is terrible the country and poor state students are being deprived' to pointless state school bashing.

We do well in sitting down sports - rowing, riding, sailing. As far as I know many private schools don't do thise things, either!

merrymouse

This is just one example that offers sailing, shooting, judo and cycling.
Merchant Taylors' Northwood

They have 200 acres of playing fields plus lakes and a swimming pool.

Lots of DC can have a go at things like shooting, sailing, climbing etc through school, through scouting or on PGL weeks. So a taster session is open to most state school DC. If mine showed an interest in anything they had enjoyed we made an effort to find out what was available locally and if we could afford it and they could fit it in their week we let them have a go. We had some spare cash and time to do this but many can't. Private school and wealthy parents give DC more choice and oppertunity. They also enable very talented youngsters to carry on post school. Less wealthy DC have work when they leave school/university.

But are these schools actually training Olympic athletes are just providing pleasant activities for pupils to take part in?

or just providing

I think its about providing the children the opportunity to try these different sports and to compete in them. I know from a friend's child that if you start competing in events then you are more likely to be spotted as a potential national level athlete in the sport. The people who run the national teams can only select people they know about and competitions are one way to get to know about talented young people.

'taster sessions' are great but they're not the same as 'training for something' - i did loads of stuff through Guides and summer camps once or twice (archery, climbing, shooting, canoeing, sailing, probably more i can't think of) but as a child i never experienced 'training' or 'practice' and so i was never able to get better at anything. Our school PE was all about 'trying' things too and there were 'talent scouts' but nothing to teach those who weren't immediately brilliant how to become better.

It wasn't until i went to uni with loads of posh folks that i took up judo and learned how to learn a physical skill... learning how to train and get better is a skills itself. one my slightly rough comp schol did not give me at all or even hint at.

I swam as a kid but when I got to age 9/10 and it got 'serious' I couldn't get a lift to the next town for training so gave it up.

Since uni i've become pretty competent at judo and jiu jitsu, skiing and now mountain biking (including doing things that really scare me, practicing things and failing a million times before succeeding and controlling the nerves to compete in all those sports).

Even private school are just providing facilities and some coaching at an early level. Clubs must be doing the majority as DC get older. The top boarding schools might provide more but there is only so much a private day school can do surley even if Wednesday afternoons and Saturday morning are all sport.

I do understand why parents like the fact that the school have 1st. 2nd,........1Xs but club rugby, hockey, cricket will still be of a higher standard

My very good secondary school activly discouraged getting involved in sporting outside of school. It meant that people had to have time off which buggered up their results. And they were beholden to league tables.

There is (as has been repeatedly moanded abotu MN) a zero-tolerance approach to any flexibility with regard to time off in the state sector. Sod not being able to go on holiday, parents of children who take even a tiny amount of time off to compete face being fined.

I'm quite anti private schooling, but you really really can't blame them for that attitude in the state sector.

Hi merrymouse - yes it is now a day school but was a boarding school until 2001. Saturday school is still compulsory with sport in the afternoon. Yes there may only be taster sessions but it is stil an opoertunity to show an aptitude for a sport that you may not know you had and can lead onto other things.

"they encourage the competitive ethos in pupils unlike state schools where all too often the hopeless liberal 'give them all medals' ideology prevails!"

seriously? that's bollocks.

is that really how private school parents justify the fees?

Also family 'connections' can make the difference in sport too. If dad is a reasonable club cricketer he can coach DC himself and give them a head start. He may also know who the county junior coaches are and get them into coaching/trials at 7/8/9. These kids have a head start and once they are 'in' they get better, have more coaching get into a good club, play for their own age group and because they are good play for an older age group as well.

I'm sure the same is true in many sports.

I don't think sending your child to a school where they do sailing on Saturdays is that much different to sending your child to a 5 days a week school and then taking them to the local sailing club on Saturdays.

My argument is that in the vast majority of cases Olympic champions are trained by clubs and supported by parents, and they pass beyond school sport pretty quickly, whether they go to a state or independent school.

I agree that parents who pay private school fees are highly likely to be both in the group of parents who can afford other extra curricular activities, and also be people who can seek out opportunities and facilitate participation - thats a bit of a no brainer.

However, I don't think British athletes win medals because they went to a "play up and play the game" posh competitive sports ethos type school. Most of them will have been spotted as pre-teens anyway. Parents, personality and opportunity make the difference. (Always assuming some kind of innate skill...).

My DCs state school has zero tolerance to time off except for educational reasons, that includes sports and in my DDs case music. No you don't get time off for holidays, but you do get permission to compete or perform at a high level (at least County).

@mummy that's good. an improvment from when I was there. I had friends who were at national level denied time off.

We have sport and dance schools here, they are public schools and I believe the facillities are great at them.

redwhiteandblu states it as it is. Most schools pass their talented athletes onto specialist clubs/coaching.

My former athletics coach, who has coached an Olympic athlete, has written articles about how standards are declining because there just aren't as many active young children coming through as in the past. When he gets them at age 13/14, its just too late for them to catch up on the motor skills from leading active lifestyles that children used to have in the past. Note basic good motor skills, not even sport specific skills.

It does seem to be a fact that children from middle class, private school backgrounds tend to be more active. It also seems to be a fact that children with sporty parents tend to produce sporty children.

This is running, which is one of the cheapest sports to do, and which in the past, has had what I think you could describe as quite a working class image. Went back to a training session with my coach at the track recently and it was true, more than half the kids there were from local private schools.

Its also to do about the motivation and determination of the athletes involved. There are kids that travel an hour or more by bus to get to training. And then there are the ones that live next door and don't turn up because it rains. Subsidised busses are laid on for most competitions, but if the athletes can't be bothered getting out of their beds in the morning and would rather play on their playstations, theres not much you can do. Children of 14 plus really don't need to be dependent on their parents to drive them about to training sessions if they can get a bus.

Reading on here, you can tell that theres quite a lot of posters who are completely unfamiliar with competitive sport, and consider it quite a negative thing.

British Cycling is doing a lot to encourage youngsters. The club that ds goes to has a large supply of track bikes (kept in a container ) as well as some mountain bikes and road bikes for those that don't have them. At the moment the track cycling is done outside as our new velodrome is not yet complete (being built for the Commonwealth Games :)). On dry days, ds always wants to get there early do he can be sure of getting one of the track bikes (he hates mountain biking). The club also (I think) gets finding from Glasgow City Council. The club costs something like £40 a year.

So all kids need is a helmet.

For the first year, British Cycling gives free Silver membership (which gives you your racing Licence). Race entry fees are between £3 and £5. Of course, there is still the cost of getting to the races - but having kids who do anything is not cheap.

The state secondary that ds is about to go to (in 12 days! ) is one of SRU's Rugby Academies, which means that he will get 4 sessions of rugby a week (1 of his PE sessions, 2 sessions from his classes on a rotational basis and one after-school session)) so sports organisations are trying to get to grass roots level.

The same school "spawned" Robert Millar, who won the "King of Mountains" jersey in the Tour de France in 1984. (OK, that was a long time ago)

The Scottish swimmer Michael Jamieson, who's just won a silver medal, went to the Glasgow School of Sport - another state school, one which is specifically set up to encourage a number of sports.

My niece, at another state school in Glasgow, rows at school and they won the Scottish Championships for 4s (not sure if it was sculling or rowing).

So it is possible for state schools to encourage and develop top level sportspeople.

BTW: Rugby isn't necessarily an expensive sport, at least not where we are: junior membership is £50 a year, no match fees (although we do encourage parents and coaches to make cakes when we have visiting teams for the cake stall we use to raise funds). We also have a boot bag for people to put "grown-out" off boots into, so that you don't necessarily need to buy boots. There are match-day kit (from having gone out to get sponsorship). On training days, they just need to wear stuff that they can move in and that you don't mind getting dirty. The only expense that is unavoidable is the compulsory gum shields - but you can get cheap ones for £2. We do NOT encourage any body armour. Scrum caps are about the only body protection tolerated - and even that is only if you are going into the scrum seriously (which only starts at secondary).