Troubled families have too many children ?

[BridgetJonesPants]

AIBU to agree with this article written by Louise Casey, the Prime Minister's troubled families tsar?

uk.news.yahoo.com/troubled-families-too-many-children-022219547.html

Although I have no idea how you can get 'these mothers' who have probably had a chaotic upbringing themselves to take responsibility for not having any more children.

titty you sound....how shall I put this...ignorant as hell. I won't bother with this thread anymore...but people like you make me worry.

These 'powers that be' titty, how confident are you that they'd want you to pass on your powers of reasoning to future generations?

Have you seen how that sort of policy ends, in China? Babies abandoned to die by the side of roads, or violently killed, and even forced abortions.

Do you really want the UK's record on Hunan Rights to become synonymous with that of China?!

"women have far more contraceptive choices than men do"
Men have the most effective contraceptive choice of all available to them. It's called abstinence from penetrative sex. Oh but wait, I forgot men were entitled to access to sex as of right with the other gender shouldering the entire responsibility for the prevention of unwanted pregnancy. Silly old me, eh?

And I COULD afford the first 3 DC's I had. Unfortunately, my disability was dxd when the third DC was two weeks old, and it barred me for life from my career. I lost everything due to a specific disability diagnosis. The fourth, yes, granted, I couldn't, but as I fell pregnant with a 5 year implant in just two years after it was inserted, it wasn't as if I was actively TTC, was it...

Was I meant to terminate? Did my 17mo baby not have a right to life just because I have fallen on hard times?

I have made damn sure there won't be any more, but for ME the MH effects of a termination (which to ME is murder, though I grant that not everyone shares that view, it's just how I feel) would have been far more devastating to the DC's that I already had than continuing with the pregnancy.

And most people I know with 4 DC's are the same. The only people I know with more than 4 are Catholic.

Well im against abortion per se anyway so if i was in charge there'd be no forced abortions. But i think prevention is better than cure, in that prevention of pregnancy (contraceptives) where its not financially/emotionally feasible etc is better than dealing with abortions and unwanted/neglected children.

"Men have the most effective contraceptive choice of all available to them. It's called abstinence from penetrative sex."

Unless I'm missing something, women have that option too.

Why are you against abortion titty?

I wasn't saying they didn't - merely responding to the absurd argument that women have to shoulder the responsibility because they're the ones with access to contraception. Women AND men need to control their fertility. Men more so, actually, since over a lifetime, they are capable of becoming parents many more times than women are.

Does that automatically mean that Catholicism is the cause of broken Britain? I highly doubt it.

I think it is derogatory to suggest that just because I NOW am long-term unemployed and have a long term health condition that my DC's are running amok and not going to school etc.

It's rubbish. My 14yo DD with LD's and Autism has worked do hard at school and is aiming to train in Catering, my 10yo DS1 is currently studying for his 11+ hoping to get into a super-selective Grammar school, my 8yo DS2 is trying very hard, and despite being unable to walk or talk at 3yo (hereditary muscle issues), is now at the expected level for his age in Maths, and only just over a year behind in literacy.

They are doing the library reading challenge over the holidays, they enjoy walks and picnics in the local Country Park, we are having a science experiments day tomorrow.

This year, my DC got punctuality awards despite the fact that I have to do a 40 minute bus journey every morning to get the younger two to school on time. This is despite having uncontrolled epilepsy.

I don't drink to excess because I can't afford decent wine and won't drink vinegar, I gave up smoking three years ago, I don't take drugs (apart from those prescribed by the Neurologist for my epilepsy), I don't go out, I don't leave my DC's with random people.

Does this sound like the people this article is on about? No? But I would be classed as one of 'those people' by falling into at least two of these categories, if not more...

If I'm such a menace to Society, then I hate to see what a 'normal' parent is like. I assume they must spend all evening polishing their halos?

i feel its akin to murder, and know i couldn't go through with it personally. Oddly i don't feel the same way about the morning after pill, which is kinda the same thing, except really really early.

How early does it have to be before it's murder?

For me personally, i dont think it probably has anything to do with early, more the fact that taking a morning after pill, in my mind, is an extension of taking the pill. You don't know if your pregnant, chances are that your not, but your just taking an extra precaution.

Abortion however, you know you are pregnant, there is a baby (imo) growing inside you and abortion is the mother actively taking the step to kill off that life that she knows is growing inside her.

Or not have sex

Yeah cos Couthy is a woman so its up to her to keep her legs closed and her mouth shut right????!!!! Cos being a female your needs dont fucking matter eh! And people deny that there are any mysogynistic comments on this thread.

Now I don't hold others to my personal view on terminations, but I know it's not for me. In certain circumstances, women MUST have the right to choose. But that doesn't mean that it should be used as a form of contraception.

To me, carer, my needs DO matter, but I also need to start taking control of my life rather than letting men do so. It means I am
Fucking lonely when the DC are in bed, hence being on MN so much, but it's infinitely preferable to having ANOTHER DC, I know that while I cope ok with 4, 5 would be too many for me, even if I was a millionaire.

Still a misogynistic view that it is ALL my responsibility. So supporting my DC's that I had WHILE USING CONTRACEPTION (all 4 of them!) is all down to me, rather than also the responsibility of the man whose DNA they carry?!

I'm glad that at least DS2 & 3's dad doesn't see it like that.

exactly Karlos, a woman can have unprotected sex with 10 different men but she can only become pregnant the once. A man can have unprotected sex with 10 different women and get them all pregnant. Whose fertility needs to be controlled, his or hers?

The newspapers and government agencies love to tell us about these terrible women who have umpteen children with different men, but how many men are there who have had children with several different women? There are men who go from woman to woman to woman leaving a child here and a child there, and as couthymow pointed out, they're laughing because if they're out of work then the most they'll ever lose is £7 no matter how many children have, and even if they are working there gets to be a point where they don't get any more money deducted from their wages.

What people are proposing is that we punish women, we force women into taking hormonal contraception (I'm assuming that's what you mean by mandatory contraception) and therefore violating her human rights. Secondly, we reduce the amount of money she receives to support her children. You could end up with situations where a woman with 2 children meets a man who has 4, he gets her pregnant then buggers off. She gets to struggle financially while her former partners financial situation will remain exactly the same. How is this fair? How is this reasonable?

I wouldn't stop anyone else having a termination neither, upthread i just meant i wouldn't have forced terminations, if someone chose to have a termination then thats up to them.

exactly Karlos, a woman can have unprotected sex with 10 different men but she can only become pregnant the once. A man can have unprotected sex with 10 different women and get them all pregnant. Whose fertility needs to be controlled, his or hers?

THIS THIS THIS!

Excellent post smells like a teen strip I do agree!

edam Sat 21-Jul-12 11:50:11
Quite, Hecate. And then you get people like Jumping claiming its all the fault of women for 'marginalising' men.

Massive misquote there, if you are too dim to read and understand what I actually said, then don't attribute your perception to me.

Shall we look at what I actually said?

It comes down to dilution of family life. Men have been marginalised for the past 60 years; there is quite a left wing belief that women can bring up families on their own, have an entitlement to a baby to fulfil their (the mothers) emotional needs.

There we go, lovvie.... here have my spare grip, you need one. At no point did I say the left wing were women.

A woman can have unprotected sex with 10 different men but she can only become pregnant the once. A man can have unprotected sex with 10 different women and get them all pregnant. Whose fertility needs to be controlled, his or hers?

The newspapers and government agencies love to tell us about these terrible women who have umpteen children with different men, but how many men are there who have had children with several different women? There are men who go from woman to woman to woman leaving a child here and a child there, and if they're out of work then the most they'll ever lose is £7 no matter how many children

This should be a campaign. Shiny Dave and his dozy czars should hear it.

Good article about the 120,000 by Zoe Williams

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/18/problem-families-poverty

I have despised Zoe Willaims ever since I heard her jibe about our current government being "educationally sub-normal" and that article is as pointless and poorly-reasoned as most of the crap she spews out.
The point is not that these problem families dont exist. They do. What I take issue is the notion that the way to deal with them is solely through controlling female fertility. There are quite a lot of men at all levels of society with the idea that preventing unwanted pregnancy is solely a woman's business. they need to take some responsibility and people like Louise Casey should stop letting them off the hook.

Thanks Claig. Just what the doctor ordered