Bloody hell, terrifying, shooting in US.

[GobblersKnob]

Shooting in cinema.

Words fail me, how fucking awful

If guns and easy access to high grade weaponry has nothing to do with it then please explain we have so few of these crimes in the UK compared to the US?

Is it because we are all, man, woman and child, peaceable and gentle folk to whom violent crime is totally anathema? A brief perusal of the news media suggests this is unlikely.

Or, hang on...might it be because our access to guns is far more controlled, and therefore it's much harder for your common or garden sociopath/fanatic/disturbed loner to get access to high grade weaponry?

Nah, course not. Must be something else.

I was reading that a gun club refused him entry because they thought he was crazy.

It's just all so sad, so senseless.

There has to be a better way of flagging people whose interest in guns seems unhealthy..

flippinada the problem with the US is in their culture and society without guns those nutters would be making home made bombs. the point here is they need to change as a culture, need to take more notice of their fellow man so nutters get help and maybe stop with the cut throat capitalist view that those with nothing should die on the street and you are a nothing if you have no money.

Many places in the world have guns, France for example, Canada etc but nowhere seems to have the same problem with lone nutters as the US does.

The attitude is more "you're a nothing if you don't work hard", not "you are a nothing if you have no money."

Well what ever it is I'm sure it's a society problem letting such people fester in hate and madness without any intervention before it gets this far rather then blaming the tools they use for the job.

Regardless of what kind of society the US is and you (general you) could spend pages discussing that, taking away access to guns removes an outlet for these people to express their frustrations,doesn't it?

Guns provide an accessible (in the US) and fairly portable method by which you can maim/injure/kill quite a large amount of people in a short space of time - whatever your motive.

I doubt this atrocity will lead to stricter gun controls though, they never seem to - although someone resident in the US will no doubt be better informed on that than me.

I know Switzerland (for example) has a high percentage of gun ownership and I think guns are also widely used in France for hunting. This is just general knowledge of course, I haven't looked at the topic in detail.

I would think the type of weaponry people have access to is also important - eg you can't shot a lot of people in a short space of time with, say, a hunting rifle whereas you could with an automatic.

I honestly think there will be some terrorism-linked avenue to restricting the sale of automatic and semi-automatic weapons at some point. I think it will take some sort of carnage involving gang or terrorism-related murder of people outside the urban ghettos to give gun control advocates a foot in the door though.

More Americans have been killed by gunfire in their own cities than in several recent wars combined.

Obviously I mean can't shoot

Does anyone know if there's a profile been done of people who commit these kinds of crimes?

Math that is scary. I can well believe it though.

Controversial, but seems relevant:

www.killology.com/

As I understand it, because they have no standing army in Switzerland, every man has to keep a rifle in his house, but the ammunition is stored by the local government.

No-one would suggest taking their guns from farmers, sportspeople etc - but why would anyone need a submachine gun?

Surely they could ban some sorts of weapons in the US, without infringing upon the American person's right to bear arms?

The main problem is American culture and unfortunately also with the way their political system works.

Back when I lived in the US, the thing which struck me the most was how law abiding and respectful to the law most people were. Yes there are random shootings but we also have to realise the country is simply HUGE. In general I felt way safer over there than in the UK.

But at the same time some of their ways of thinking seem alien to us. So many of them believe and continue to believe that this tragedy would have been sorted quicker if everyone had guns. I doubt you would find many Europeans believing the same.

Guns are a way of life for many American's. I remember a guy I was working with. To him going hunting at the weekend with his rifle and guns was as normal as someone in the UK taking a fishing rod to his local lake. He taught his daughter how to use guns at the age of 10. To him the idea of gun control was simply correct handling of a weapon. And the idea of the government banning the public using guns was as repugnant as our government banning fishing rods.

It's simply telling that after the shooting of so many people that neither presidential candidates have said anything about gun control.

I think you're right that it is a cultural problem, but I don't think it's just to do with the right to bear arms.

As I said before, it's also about people diving into violent films and computer games and wanting to continue the adrenalin rush when they surface into real life. Or maybe they can't separate real life from the fantasy world. This young man had his hair dyed red. He thought he was the Joker.

But what can you do about that? I will never understand how some people manage to over ride what I assume is the normal response to violence (horror, revulsion etc) and instead get such a huge kick from killing people online or watching gruesome murders in films. What is that about?

What can you do about that?

• make it the law that every gun owner has a licence and that all guns must be stored correctly;
• ban the sale of automatic weapons to the public;
• limit the amount of ammunition that any one person can buy at one time;
• make it law that every gun purchase is registered on a central database and anyone purchasing more than one weapon within a given time frame is flagged and cross-referenced with a criminal database;
• educate people who own/run gun clubs or gun stores to flag up concerns about potential members or customers with the police.

Of course, you can't legislate against random nutters. There will always be disturbed and occasionally murderous people out there and they may be able to get hold of or make weapons, but making it much more difficult for them to do so is surely a good thing? Anyone who wishes to own guns for sport or their own protection would still be allowed to do so.

Good practical suggestions, Juneau.

Yes, but these sensible suggestions don't take account of the culture there. I have an American student who was horrified that he couldn't bring any of his guns into Britain. 'I feel as if I'm walking around naked,' he said. 'what am I supposed to do if someone comes into my home?' 'Call the police,' I said. 'They wouldn't get to me in time,' he said, probably not untruly. This guy is not stupid... it's the world he lives in. Personally I'd be for any kind of gun control, but it would be hellishly hard to implement in the US. They honestly think that guns make them safer.

Well...he kind of was stupid, IMO. Everyone I know is American and I can't imagine any of them would think they could bring their guns across any borders.

The foreigners I meet are frequently astonished that our police don't carry guns and that we don't need to take an identity card with us wherever we go. That lots of us leave our doors and windows open at night. That women can and do walk through parks on their own and at night. That we don't have armed guards on duty on public transport. That we are allowed to walk along the beach at night ...

I admit I don't know much about it but could it be the fact that people can carry guns in the USA that stops them being able to live like we do (except maybe in rural areas)?

Well, of course, Solo.

And I'm not sure the guy was stupid; he'd taken his guns to Canada and Mexico... and I think like many Americans think of the UK as more like the US than it is.

The thing is, US culture is not any one thing. I have never locked my door; we don't even have a key for it. Well, we must somewhere, but I've got no idea where it is.

I walk home by myself from work at 11 p.m. with no fear whatsoever. And I know most people around me have a gun or two somewhere. It doesn't frighten me.

How long ago was this? I can't imagine anyone thinking they could take a weapon of any sort into another country.

Point taken, CheerfulYank.