farmers need a fair milk price

[cazboldy]

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cuts-in-milk-prices-will-cause-rise-to-consumers-say-farming-leaders-7935411.htm

something really needs to be done about this - the government need to step in and sort out these supermarkets - not just for milk, but to ensure ALL producers get a fair price for the goods they produce!

*whojamaflip8

The ironic thing is that all our milk goes for cheese production and they are still cutting what we get paid hmm

Have you looked at some of your local artisan cheese producers, and asked if they want to buy direct from you? A couple of my local ones have their own herd and make their own cheese but are constrained because they can't find enough milk because the supermarkets gobble it up. If you haven't done so it's worth phoning around.

Agree with pp that its fine diversifying into artisan products but the investment in plant and machinery to comply with legislation and food regulations is something that most farmers just do not have. We have looked into producing butter but it would take in the region of £150,000 for that to happen - we could raise that amount but there is no way we would be able to service the loan sad. There is also very little in the way of grants available.

Butter is OK, but cheese is a better alternative because butter isn't something you can sell at your local farmer's market (assuming you have one). There's a huge growth in local cheese production. Britain now has more varieties of cheese - 800 - than France. Farms around me are now opening their own shops, selling their own and other farmers' cheese. At my five (!) local farmers' markets I can buy at least 30 varieties of cheese.

I have an enormous amount of sympathy for British farmers, who are buggered to hell and back by the CAP. But the only way to beat the corporate system is to bust out of it.

Sorry if this sounds like I'm trying to teach you your job. I'm really not, I just want small farmers to have a chance.

So is milkman delivered milk better for the producer? it is more expensive and obviously it cuts out the supermarket faactor, but does any of that make it to the dairy farmer?

I have most of mine delivered because I can't bear running out, like the fact it comes in glass, and like supporting local business where possible, but I don't know if it's actually any better for farmers. Have been tempted to cancel sometimes when we've ended up leaving it outside too often, but fortunately with this year's non-summer it hasn't been such an issue recently!

i think it depends who you buy it from.... if it's a local farmer doing his own milk round then yes, absolutely, but if it's from Dairy Crest or the like, then you are indirectly subsidising the supermarkets, as the larger price you pay enables them to sell very cheaply to the supermarkets who they also supply, hence contributing to the whole situation.

I think an idea would be to have a similar system to egg production.

Those farmers who can produce milk cheaply, from cows that are farmed intensively could be paid a basic milk price - which would still enable those that want cheap milk to have it.

Those that produce their milk to higher standards, ensuring the cows a better quality of life, but also incurring more costs, could produce a kind of "free range" milk and could charge a premium for it.

this would give consumers a choice..... and give those farmers that do really care about their animals a decent incentive for the extra trouble they go to.

what do you all think?

That's interesting Caz, and not really what I'm trying to achieve obviously!

I don't know how to find out - I just copied is number from a milk float that delivered to our neighbours. When I put my postcode into the Milk and More website his is not the contact that comes up though.

think you will find milk and more is part of dairy crest..... who incidentally were the first to cut their prices this time....

they have laid people off, and closed a processing factory nearish to me, so are obviously struggling themselves, but when they cut the price they are just inviting the other processors to follow suit, so not actually sure what that acheives really!

Sorry, yes that's what I meant - Milk and More has the listings for the Dairy Crest milkmen (delivery person to be non-gender-specfic!), and my guy doesn't come up on it, so I don't know if that means he's a farmer or who he is!

ok sorry, bit confused there thought you meant he was in a milk and more van.......

Just ask him!

There is an awful lot of food on supermarket shelves that is artificially low in price. Suppliers are being put under increasing pressure to supply goods at what is fast becoming an unsustainable price. The weather this year has put a lot of produce growers in a position where the veg grown in British fields hasn't met the retailers' stringent quality checks (eg cauli too yellow/not big enough) so it then has to be imported from elsewhere at a loss and what's in the field locally is ploughed back in as it can't be sold. Utter, utter madness.

What can we do? Boycott the supermarkets? I'm ashamed to say that I don't know any ethical suppliers of milk.

TigerFeet

What can we do? Boycott the supermarkets? I'm ashamed to say that I don't know any ethical suppliers of milk.

You can start to spend your money elsewhere. Farmers' markets and farm shops, if you shop wisely, aren't any more expensive for in-season produce. My weekly shop is now 60% (by value) at the farmer's markets and 40% at the supermarket. There are some things I can't get at the market, loo rolls, detergents, etc, but everything I can buy, I buy from local sellers.

Even a fortnightly trip to a farm shop to stock up your freezer with meat takes money away from the big sellers and puts it back in your farm's pocket.

the one thing I think that the government could do is to stop supermarkets selling milk (and other products - bread springs to mind) as loss leaders.... noone should be able to buy something at a cost of less than it costs to produce.....

from the supermarkets point of view if cheap milk gets people in the door, then they will spend more money on other things

the only thing is... they aren't the ones losing money on the products!

Thanks flatpack, I am trying to do just that, although I admit I could put more effort into it. I live in the arse end of nowhere - plenty of farms and farm shops around here.

I'm going to try and link to a picture that was posted by a farmer friend on facebook this morning which illustrates the problem between farmers and supermarkets really well.

Would it be feasible to cap the amount of profit a retailer can make on staple food items perhaps?

Thanks for raising this, I wasn't aware. Am going to try to find somewhere locaal (there is an obvious one, just need to check wed be getting local milk from local cows, swim)

TigerFeet

Thanks flatpack, I am trying to do just that, although I admit I could put more effort into it. I live in the arse end of nowhere - plenty of farms and farm shops around here.

It does take more time. I can do it because I'm self-employed, so every Thursday morning I traipse along to my local farmer's market. But once you've shopped, chatted to everyone (because everyone wants to talk to you), and got home and unpacked it's probably taken well over an hour and nearer to an hour and a half. So that means that something else has to be sacrificed in order to live in this way.

The great thing about it for me is that I know exactly where everything comes from. I know the fishmonger who goes to the market, where he buys his fresh fish from. I've been to the farmer where I buy my meat and I've seen their animal welfare, which is very important to me. This morning I bought some 'class 2' raspberries, which you won't see in the supermarkets. They aren't perfect to look at, but they taste just the same. Cost me half the normal price.

I'm going to try and link to a picture that was posted by a farmer friend on facebook this morning which illustrates the problem between farmers and supermarkets really well.

If you're thinking of the bottle of milk, a farmer friend of mine posted the same thing this morning. Worth everyone noting that, I think, and worth passing on.

Would it be feasible to cap the amount of profit a retailer can make on staple food items perhaps?

Unfeasible. Firstly, you aren't allowed to. That's price fixing and is forbidden under EU competition laws. Secondly, the problem here is that big government (Westminster and Brussels, since all the rules on food production are generated not in the UK but by the EU Commission in Brussels) is in collusion with big business (the retailers). Thirdly, price fixing simply disguises the problem. If retailers could only (for example) make 15p on £1 of milk instead of 25p, they'll find other ways to lower prices, and you'll then have to regulate that too, and so on.

The best thing you can do is to make a stand, and to tell all your friends about it and encourage them to do the same. One idea I've been toying with is talking to all my neighbours and getting together to buy our milk direct from a farmer. So, twice a week, the farmer drives around our housing estate and delivers milk to us. We cut out the supermarket, we get better quality milk, and the farmer gets his local trade.

Sorry for the endless post, but farmers markets are my favourite thing in the entire world....

'Those farmers who can produce milk cheaply, from cows that are farmed intensively could be paid a basic milk price - which would still enable those that want cheap milk to have it.

Those that produce their milk to higher standards, ensuring the cows a better quality of life, but also incurring more costs, could produce a kind of "free range" milk and could charge a premium for it.

this would give consumers a choice..... and give those farmers that do really care about their animals a decent incentive for the extra trouble they go to.'

If you want a guaranteed price either at the low end or the high end, dream on. That is not western capitalism. The repercussions of the fixed price would be felt in suppliers' businesses and in businesses consuming dairy products. You would end up with a USSR style 'managed economy'.

Consumers already have a choice. What you have to do as a producer to make sure your product is their choice is build up your brand, spend a lot of time identifying your market, and selling, selling, selling. If what you are doing now isn't working well, and if you want to stay in the same business, you need to find where the profit lies and go in that direction. In this western capitalist economy, that means accepting the level of risk inherent in any business decision and trying to minimise it by means of deliberate risk-spreading decisions, not hankering after the security of a guaranteed price.

noone said anything about a guaranteed price - we just want a fair price!

A basic milk price is a guaranteed price by my book.

If you want a fair price you have to convince the consumer that what you are asking is fair.

Cazboldy, I'm sorry but I don't think you'll be able to get your 'fair' price from the wholesalers.

hopefully some of you will sign this......epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/6424

epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/6424

The dairy industry is an abomination. No way should it be subsidized at all, let alone more.

Metabilis3 thats a harsh statement - would you care to explain?

Welfare issues for dairy cows

Given a natural healthy life, cows can live for twenty years or more. High yielding dairy cows will last for only around a quarter of that time. They are usually culled after three lactations because they are chronically lame or infertile.
Lameness, mastitis and infertility

Milk is heavy and a dairy cow may be carrying several extra kilos of milk in her udders. This can force her hind legs into an unnatural position, making walking difficult, and can result in lameness. It can also make standing and lying down difficult and uncomfortable.

Mastitis is a painful udder infection that is prevalent among dairy cows. In a herd of 100 cows in the UK, there could be as many as 70 cases of mastitis every year on average. Housing cows for long periods can also increase the prevalence of mastitis.

Infertility among high yielding dairy cows is increasing. It has been linked to stress, poor body condition and the demands of high milk production on the cow?s general health.
Housing

Cows kept indoors have less opportunity to act naturally and exercise. Poor ventilation and high humidity increase the risk and spread of infection. These factors are likely to have an adverse effect on their health.

Hard concrete flooring can cause foot damage and is more painful for lame cows to stand and walk on. Zero-grazing systems have been linked to increased lameness.

Some herds, including a number in the UK, are kept on concrete floors with inadequate bedding. These are uncomfortable for the cows to walk, stand or lie down on.
Diet

The diet of high yielding cows often has relatively little fibrous content and is inappropriate for their type of digestive system. This leads to acidity in the part of the stomach, known as the ?rumen?. This can lead to acidosis and painful lameness from laminitis.

In the US, many dairy cows are still given growth hormones to increase milk yield. This is illegal in the EU.
Surplus dairy calves

In commercial dairy farming, nearly all calves are taken away from their mother shortly after birth. This causes severe distress to both the cow and the calf. This has long-term effects on the calf?s physical and social development.

High-yielding cows produce calves which are generally less suited to beef production and some of these are shot at birth and may, if the Dutch and Belgian ban on calf imports from Great Britain is lifted, be sold on for rearing in Europe. Some calves from Northern Ireland are exported to the Continent of Europe. Calves are vulnerable at this age and are not well-adapted to cope with the stress of long distance transport.

Due to co-operation between Compassion in World Farming, the RSPCA and the industry through the Calf Stakeholder Forum, more male dairy calves are now reared humanely for beef and the number of calves being shot at birth has greatly decreased. There is more work to do - 100,000 or so are still shot every year.
Slaughtering dairy cows

When dairy cows come to the end of their productive life, they may be transported long distances to be slaughtered. This is because few slaughterhouses deal with spent dairy cows.

www.ciwf.org.uk/farm_animals/cows/dairy_cows/welfare_issues.aspx

Due to co-operation between Compassion in World Farming, the RSPCA and the industry through the Calf Stakeholder Forum, more male dairy calves are now reared humanely for beef and the number of calves being shot at birth has greatly decreased. There is more work to do - around 100,000 or so are still shot every year.

Ok I accept the points above BUT they do not apply to the majority of dairy farms in the Uk.

Our own dairy herd is pedigree British Friesian - a breed which is known for its longevity and health including lameness - so much so that the large intensive herds are now crossing their Holsteins with Friesian bulls to improve them. OK they are not the highest yielding dairy breed but for our system it is better to have an animal which is productive for many years rather than have to replace every 3 lactations. Our oldest milking cow is 13 and I can honestly say we did not have one case of lameness last year. Mastitis can be a problem esp in the winter when we have to house the girls for welfare reasons (fields are too wet, not enough grass for them to eat, no shelter etc) but our average percentage annually is less than 3% mastitis which equates to about 4 cases a year.

Our girls are housed in a loose barn littered on straw with access at all times to a collecting yard for exercise in the winter. In summer thay are at grass at all times apart from when they are being milked. They have access to ad lib feed (silage in winter) and grass in summer and are given concentrates only as a bit of a treat when they are milking. We only give medication if it is necessary (drugs are too expensive to be used if not needed) and as you rightly said growth hormones are banned in the EU

Any male calves which are born on the farm are raised for beef - we have never shot a calf at birth - and any surplus females are sold as pedigrees for breeding.

Re the culling out of older cows - Yes it is unacceptable some of the distances they have to travel but this is a direct result of government interferance and legislation which has meant that many small slaughter houses have closed or are unable to comply with the regulations.

I am not saying that our herd is perfect but we do the best by our cows we can.

I agree that there are some intensive dairy farms in the uk but ime they are in the minority and give the rest of us a bad name. I am quite happy to show anyone round the farm if they so wish so that they can see for themselves.