boy dies after calling 999 from ward

[ohdobuckup]

I just cannot believe this appalling story, can't link but it was in most papers and headlined in Daily Mail.

Inquest being held into the case of a young man who appears to have suffered severe neglect at Tooting hospital, with 'lazy' nurses and indifferent doctors allowing him to die of thirst because he was confused following major operation.The poor sod even dialled 999 to get help, police arrived but were ushered off the ward

How the fuck has nursing become such a corrupted profession?
I am an ex-nurse, mostly Mental Health, and not that ancient either, and whilst not claiming any perfection on my part, and have had lapses of judgement and bad days too, I am truly appalled by this one.

Any other nurses/exes seen this?

Auxiliaries are a big problem. They're often woefully untrained and have no oversight. They are task-focused and have no caring agenda. Not all, this is, but really a lot of them are like this. They dress them up like nurses but they're not nurses, and they don't have agency. Sadism is often the result of powerlessness, psychological studies show this time and again.

Also I could do without one more lecture by some bloody woman about how disability is a punishment from God. Really! Over that one now! Auxiliaries specialise in that one.

er, a uniform, a prisoner + lack of agency and oversight = sadism

Poor poor boy.Sadly we have had bad experiences too.My uncle was admitted with stomach pains,he was registered blind,deaf,had CP, Spina Bifida,heart problems,autism and mental disabilities.His care was awful in the main,no one read his notes and didn't seem to realise his disabilities,he couldn't leave until he ate,but they wouldn't bring him any food he could eat,the nurses seemed uncaring and uninterested in him.They seemed to think he had Downs Syndrome,despite it being evident that he hadn't,and one nurse told my mum that he didn't need pain relief because 'they' [people with DS] 'don't feel pain,do they?' Bloody hell,I left school at 16 and even I know that that is a myth.

My poor mum complained and complained,but never got anywhere.When,after he was discharged,he had a heart attack,despite being devastated,we were all a little relieved that he wouldn't have to go back to hospital again.

Conversely,my mum and DH have both had excellent treatment at the same hospitals,in different wards,but I would never leave someone vulnerable on their own in hospital after what happened to my uncle.

T2mum I am so so sorry about your poor Mum. How could they, it is just so unspeakably cruel and needless.

Betty x

Why don't people sue the hospitals or the trusts?

While I love the principle of the NHS and see a lot of problems in the private health system of the US and the public/private divide in Ireland, one thing the US has going for it is the responsiveness of hospital administrators to law suits. It's amazing how nursing standards can be raised once a hospital has been socked with a multi million dollar wrongful death judgement.

Mathanxiety

Have you ever tried making a complaint?

I am 18 months into the process of making a complaint about medical negligence resulting in the death of a relative.

I am a nurse, several members of my family are in the nursing/medical profession.

The lies, deceit and sheer incompetence are breathtaking. It is like pulling teeth trying to get any information or answers from any of the people involved.

I am exhausted with it. Heaven knows how people without any medical knowledge or some idea of the system get anywhere at all with it.

Look at how whistleblowers are treated.

FWIW, NHS trusts set aside millions just to pay for medical negligence lawyers. I wish they would spend that money on improving care.

Very interesting post smellslikecatspee thanks for posting. I work in a care home and experiance much of the same.

I am a nurse and find this story truly sickening . There is no excuse i can think of for letting someone dehydrate and die whilst on a ward , no matter how busy. The best thing that could happen to the NHS is if certain things were standardised. For instance in our hospital , we have nutrional assistants , they ensure all the patients are fed and watered , they check thier nutrional risk charts , fill in food diaries , ask for nutrional supplements for those seen as at risk , weigh people , offer additional snacks , find meals for those who have missed mealtimes etc . I dont know if it is the same in all trusts but it should be . As a nurse i still have to make sure my patients are fed and watered , i still sit dowm and help those who need assitance , get extra drinks , fill water jugs , make cups of tea . But having that person whose sole job is to ensure that everyone gets all the food and drink they need and who will approach you with concerns is fantastic .

frumpet - my sister is a nurse and cried when she read this poor young man's story.

3littlecrumpets is right, people who complain about healthcare in the UK often find the process deeply distressing and exhausting. And that's not only an NHS issue - my Godmother is permanently disabled thanks to shit nursing care in a private hospital after a knee replacement. They didn't want to know when she got an infection thanks to their crappy nursing and she was too tired and too distressed to pursue them - even though we offered to pursue it on their behalf.

However, the fear of legal action in the US brings its own problems. Practising defensive medicine means doing things to people that may not be necessary, or helpful and that may carry risks - but are done to keep the lawyers off the doctor's back. It's one of the reasons why births are so medicalised and the C-section rate is so high.

'The lies, deceit and sheer incompetence are breathtaking. It is like pulling teeth trying to get any information or answers from any of the people involved.'

That's where a subpoena would come in handy.

I had 5 DCs there in two hospitals, and was impressed by the patient centered-ness, the clean hospitals, the clean delivery rooms, the clean post natal rooms with clean private bathrooms ensuite. I only encountered one nurse who was uncaring. I had a gallbladder operation in the same hospital where four of the DCs were born and the nursing care, cleanness, etc., in the post op section was great too.

The high cs rates in the US tend to happen because of the desire of doctors to enjoy an 8 to 5 working day, not because of fear of litigation. But even so, the nursing care tends to be very good. The ideal should be fewer cs's and excellent nursing care, clean hospitals, decent food, people always bothering you to drink, etc. You shouldn't feel you can't have it all or that you should have to choose between a less medicalised birth and decent care.

However, if it came down to the choice of suffering from dehydration or having a drip in my arm (4 out of 5 births for me and the gallbladder recovery period) I know I would plump for the drip. Sometimes more medicalised = less chances of patients dying.

Depends whether they change the saline bag when it's empty or not, Math. My grandad's was left empty for half a day while he was in with a perforated gallbladder. Luckily he was still mobile enough to get a drink when he needed it (just).

My friend's partner died in exactly the same way in 2005, recovering from a routine knee operation that had gone well - he had diabetes and was more or less blind, needed more hydration than the norm and help to get to it - it wasn't given. It was a very hot summer and he was pleading for water. It didn't come. :( He didn't ring 999 but did ring my friend begging him to come from work and help - by the time he got there he was dead.

Disgusted that something similar has happened again.

There is some excellent care in the US, but it was absent in the ward I had my DCs in a few years ago. And it's easy to find cases of appalling care in the news (e.g. here and here). In my experience the US system is subject to a lot of highs and lows and is not the place to look for nation wide ideas on how to improve a system that is coming up short.

frumpet, in my experience, it is the auxiliariesthe assistantsthat do the starving. On one ward in 2009, they would put a tray in front of him, make their round, come back and pick up his tray. He would say, I can't use my hands. I can't feed myself. They didn't give then him food. They gave hima red tray instead. So the next day they put a red tray (needs assistance with eating) in front of my partner and stood at the end of his bed filling in a form. Then they came back and picked up the tray. They never gave him the food. This ward operated restricted mealtimes so I was not allowed to feed him myself. Visitors were not allowed on the ward.

I resorted to hiding in the toilet on the end of the bay on several occasions! Just to feed him!

IME there was a whole lot of paying lip service to protocols, without following through.

Ticking boxes rather than caring. As complaints are not taken seriously, nothing changes.

At least you always have the option to sue, and plenty of lawyers have put their children through college because of that.

Wrt the first tragedy:
'Upon her admission, Green waited nearly 24 hours for treatment, said the civil liberties union, which was among the groups filing suit against the facility last year seeking improved conditions for patients.'

The second one:
'Since the incident, which the hospital investigated independently, the hospital suspended the triage nurse and a registrar who offered conflicting accounts of what took place that night in the waiting room.

According to the state report, hospital leaders swore to take several corrective actions, including establishing a program to retrain staff on hospital policies; marking, with tape, a spot to where workers could walk to view the entire waiting room; maintaining a 24/7 security presence in the waiting room; and setting a defined time frame for recalling patients back to be triaged and treated.'

The ACLU has no other purpose but to sue on behalf of people who are up against government or large and well-funded institutions, and there are numerous patient rights organisations that will also take up a case against a hospital as well as individual PI lawyers and law firms.

In the second incident, the independent hospital investigation resulted in action against the medical staff members and a quick retraining and retooling of procedures, very likely with the legal department of the hospital or its corporate owner heavily involved, and with state regulators breathing down their necks.

There is no perfect system, but one where patients and their families feel diffident about filing suit, or where they are willing to proceed through the official NHS boards and complaint channels is guaranteed not to be as responsive to patient complaints as one where people are more lawsuit-happy.

A history of medical pi cases in Ireland. The first decision was handed down only in 1988. The case gripped the nation. Many people were completely shocked that anyone should have the temerity to sue - gasp - a doctor. Or a national institution like the National Maternity Hospital. Doctors were gods back then and because of the fact that they treated women, who had been trained to know their place like no other members of Irish society, OB/GYNs were the godliest of the lot. I think a lot of that attitude remains in the UK, both on the part of patients and medical staff. In Ireland, people have become more used to fighting for their rights against institutions previously considered unimpeachable like hospitals, the Catholic Church, etc.

On my last ward , protected mealtimes meant that every member of staff , nurses, HCA's and even the ward sister , downed tools and gave out meals , made sure everyone who needed help got it . That might mean sitting and feeding someone , cutting up food , or swapping a savoury course for two puddings !
We were happy for relatives to come in and help , if they wanted to , why wouldnt we .
Our nutrional assistant was like the housekeeper from father ted , people ate just to make her go away , after her 'go on , go on , just one biscuit /cup of tea / build up drink /pudding '.

Math I'm not defending the way the NHS works, especially the complaints procedure. I'm merely pointing out that the US system, despite being so different and encompassing a culture and legal environment that facilitates legal redress more readily, still gets it just as wrong.

Those hospitals are being sued, but it won't be the first time they've been sued for poor care, and it won't be the last. It might mean that particular falling doesn't happen for a decade or so at that particular hospital, but it won't do much to make the staff actually care about the patients. Only a culture change would do that.

There is very little of the auxilliary nurse level lack of care in the US -- not to defend the US system either; it has lots of holes, and give me the free at point of service system any day, but the sort of dirt, rudeness and callousness that people complain about in the UK are not tolerated in the US. There really is a cultural difference, on the whole, and many hospitals go to great lengths to foster the sort of culture where every employee does his or her best for the patients.

There is absolutely no excuse for dirt in a hospital. It should be a basic health-related priority.

Totally agree with that last point Math, it's a shame that the standards on that have slipped so much, especially with all the hospital related infections that go around. But they have, they've been slipping for years - it's not seen as a priority, any more than proper nutrition is, by the money-controllers. Can't believe that the health care is slipping backwards by over 100 years - since pre-Nightingale, when she showed that hygiene was so important! (not sure she had anything to do with nutrition, mind you.) :(

That's what you get when you force hospitals to contract cleaning out. Same as school meals going downhill when they contracted catering out. Hospitals should employ cleaners who know the job, know their wards, know where all their equipment is and what it is suitable for and what plugs NOT to unplug and have a chance to take a pride in their work. And who can be instructed by ward staff - in some hospitals nurses have no ability to instruct cleaners in what they should or should not do.

The problem is people do not want to work for low wages anymore The career nurses are sent to do admin work now when in the past they were matrons .