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boy dies after calling 999 from ward

200 replies

ohdobuckup · 03/07/2012 19:24

I just cannot believe this appalling story, can't link but it was in most papers and headlined in Daily Mail.

Inquest being held into the case of a young man who appears to have suffered severe neglect at Tooting hospital, with 'lazy' nurses and indifferent doctors allowing him to die of thirst because he was confused following major operation.The poor sod even dialled 999 to get help, police arrived but were ushered off the ward

How the fuck has nursing become such a corrupted profession?
I am an ex-nurse, mostly Mental Health, and not that ancient either, and whilst not claiming any perfection on my part, and have had lapses of judgement and bad days too, I am truly appalled by this one.

Any other nurses/exes seen this?

OP posts:
overtherooftops · 05/07/2012 00:50

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Thumbwitch · 05/07/2012 01:39

I don't suppose it's the least bit of comfort to anyone, but I've had a couple of stays in a public hospital here in Australia as well and quite frankly, it wasn't any better. I was put on a general women's ward with 3 elderly ladies (I was going through a MC) and one of them was in terrible pain constantly and couldn't move. The nurses kept ignoring her.
Another lady in the same room needed the loo - she buzzed to be taken, or for a bedpan - no one came. I buzzed (I'd been buzzing for the other lady as well) - someone came and I said the lady needed the loo - they said they'd send someone with a pan. No one came back. She soiled herself, poor love - so degrading.

There is NO FUCKING EXCUSE for this - its dehumanising.

funnyperson · 05/07/2012 05:08

I am not surprised. When I was admitted for asthma my asthma medication, though prescribed, was not given, so I discharged myself as I was actually safer at home where I would get my medication. My cardiac monitor alarmed constantly till the other patients got fed up. The nurses would eventually come and turn the alarm off but never bothered to find out why it went off and certainly never told the doctors (I had a supraventricular tachycardia)
When my dad was admitted with a fractured hip he was left without food or water and in pain for 48 hours on a ward and no drip up.
We didnt complain. It was made quite clear if we did there would be undesirable consequences. We never leave a relative alone in hospital now and ignore visting hours restrictions. We think that is why we are all still alive.

HoleyGhost · 05/07/2012 07:20

When you ignore visiting hours, can't you get thrown out?

funnyperson · 05/07/2012 07:56

Our local hospitals dont seem to mind if one relative is present. We make sure to ask the sister's permission at some point and then, as she is hardly ever around, if challenged we say we have permission. We now make sure the prescription chart has been completed within 24 hours of admission and if not we pester the nurses to bleep the doctors till it is and if it isnt we ring the doctors through hospital swtich to ask them to come to the ward to complete it. We always make sure we know the name of the consultant and the charge nurse.
We now never take it for granted that prescribed medication or fluids will be given and sit with whoever is admitted till the morning/afternoon/evening medicines have been given.
We wouldnt dream of leaving a relative alone in hospital any more.

funnyperson · 05/07/2012 07:58

We make sure that a relative is present at the morning doctors round because the doctors and nurses change so much thye havent a clue what is going on and hardly ever communicate to the patient especially not if elderly.

funnyperson · 05/07/2012 07:59

None of us go into hospital unless we are really really really desperate ( ie the GP rings the ambulance) Sadly we all have long term illnesses.

funnyperson · 05/07/2012 08:00

We think it all changed about 5 years ago when nursing staffing policy appears to have changed. It has got worse since the Tories came in due to cuts.

HerMajestyQueenHillyzabethII · 05/07/2012 08:10

God that telegraph link makes grim reading - what an awful thing to happen, and so utterly avoidable. His mother must be catatonic with rage.

I can understand that it must be difficult trying to treat people who are aggressive through drink or drugs etc., but surely they must have realised that was not the case with this boy? Someone with his medical history behaving aggressively/incoherently would seem to me to be an obvious sign that he was having some kind of severe reaction to treatment, or indeed lack of it. Even I can tell that and I'm not a HCP! Bloody appalling.

HoleyGhost · 05/07/2012 09:00

Thank you funnyperson That gives me a practical way of supporting loved ones, next time I need to.

My dd became seriously ill due to hospital staff not listening to me (and not giving a crap). I am terrified when I think of any of us being in that situation again.

EightiesChick · 05/07/2012 09:06

funnyperson sadly it goes back further. I experienced this in hospital in 2004. This residual contempt for patients and doing/not doing things to 'put them in their place' are the problem, and it exists independently of cuts.

Acumenoop · 05/07/2012 09:13

The weird thing is, it's not every ward. It's not everywhere. I've seen some really wonderful treatment in the NHS. If I had not spent so much time on geriatric, long stay etc wards with DP, I might not really believe it was so bad. The difference between those places and somewhere like The Christie--it's a world apart. My mum had such wonderful treatment there at the end of her life. But over at the MRI, it's a nightmarish slog of neglect and incompetence.

I used to think it was just because the Christie is so much better funded. And yet that is not so clear cut, because DP was just on a ward in the MRI last year and he was nursed attentively: fed, washed, turned over, medicated, cared for. It was so good I even went out for lunch on my own one day, which I would never have dared do on any previous visit to any ward in that hospital. It was a general surgery ward, as well, not even HDU, but it was a little oasis of nursing excellence. So it's not impossible. It's not! It's a solvable problem because some wards, in some hospitals, are solving it.

EightiesChick · 05/07/2012 09:22

Acumenoop I agree. It does not straightforwardly correlate to money. It is strange how some bits of the NHS have the right attitude and some don't. That is what needs fixing.

cory · 05/07/2012 09:35

I don't for a moment believe private hospitals will prove a solution. Old people die and are abused in private nursing homes. Why should it not happen in private hospitals?

If you have come in as a serious emergency and are dying from wrong medication/failure to check your cardiac chart, you are hardly going to be in a position to hop off the bed and start hunting around for a better provider, are you?

The market force and choice things really only work in matters where you have time to shop around and where making the wrong choice isn't fatal. Once you've realised a fatal mistake has been made, it's too late to make any more choices.

There are still some very good hospitals around. We are lucky to live near one of them.

Betelguese · 05/07/2012 09:42

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Betelguese · 05/07/2012 09:49

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Chubfuddler · 05/07/2012 09:58

Funnyperson my incident was in 2003.

I agree it isnt even whole hospitals. When I was in the neuro unit the care was wonderful. The orthopaedic ward was hell on earth. It's staff. Individual members of staff.

noobydoo · 05/07/2012 10:10

St Georges is the biggest shithole the world has ever seen. I have numerous stories of my own to tell of the incompetence of the medical staff there, including being shoved in a side room without seeing a midwife during labour of DC2 until he was emerging with his umbilical cord wrapped round his neck. and the bizarre thing is that they seem to consider they are a centre of excellence.

IMO - this was something that was waiting to happen. I am sorry that someone had to die for it to get the attention it deserves but maybe now someone will pay attention to the problem of the fact that nurses don't know how to nurse and doctors don't want to know unless you are dying (or dead for the matter). I hope St George's gets what it deserves, i.e., LOTS of bad publicity.

The only good thing about St Georges is the PICU - who are actually superb and first rate. The rest of the hospital could learn a thing or two from them.

SuchProspects · 05/07/2012 10:38

It's not just a lack of resources (though I do think agree are too few nurses on most wards to provide the sort of attention that is required) but also a a failure of professional oversight. And possibly, given the union quote at the end, a lack of commitment to professionalism and actively pursuing professional standards by nurses as a whole.

I wonder if any of the nurses in the incident in the OP had any complaints waiting to be heard.

MrJudgeyPants · 05/07/2012 10:43

I cannot believe that there are people out there blaming the Tory cuts for this - as if the NHS was perfect prior to 2010!

Secondly, what cuts? The NHS budget (inflation adjusted) looks like this (Source), all figures in 2010/11 Billions so inflation is already factored in.

2002/03 £70.2
2003/04 £76.8
2004/05 £80.4
2005/06 £85.0
2006/07 £87.3
2007/08 £92.3
2008/09 £96.7
2009/10 £102.8
2010/11 £102.0
2011/12 £102.8

I can see that the budget reduces in 2010/11 by 0.8 billion, but in the grand scheme of things, I doubt you can argue that that put's the NHS into financial jeopardy.

EightiesChick · 05/07/2012 11:06

I don't personally agree with Tory policy on the NHS but I do agree, as I said earlier, that these failures are not to do with cuts or funding. They are failures of empathy and professionalism.

Sidge · 05/07/2012 11:31

I think a lot of the problems described here are a combination of poor staffing levels, poor nursing management and poor skill-mix. Funding in monetary terms doesn't equate to funding being spent on essential staff and services. Just because more money is being spent on the NHS doesn't mean that it's being spent on improving staffing levels or the ratios of registered nurses to patients.

I don't believe that the majority of nursing staff are cruel and spiteful, but I think the bad apples get away with shocking care due to inadequate staffing and supervision.

Toughasoldboots · 05/07/2012 11:34

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Smellslikecatspee · 05/07/2012 11:46

I have been away from ward nursing for about 7-8 years now. The majority of people that I trained with have also left the NHS, and have left a gap of what would be considered middle management i.e.: qualified, but not interested in being charge nurses/involved in hospital politics, but highly experienced in hands on care and patient management. Experienced in teaching on the job skills to students.

It may sound a bit cowardly, but we could all see the way it was going more and more paperwork being put in place that ?only? staff nurse can do and that you would be disciplined for not doing less and less time to actually spend with patients.

Our ward manager actually banned the staff nurses from accompany the doctors rounds saying we needed to prioritize the paperwork.
That the patients could tell us what the doctors had said

So that would be the patient with dementia then, and the one who thought that eating a pound of chocolate followed by a half bottle of whiskey was a good diet.

And the little old lady who needed everything doing for her who cheerfully thought that her daughter would help look after her and of course she could manage at home, yes doctor do discharge me. no she didn?t need transport her husband would pick her up. (Daughter dead and buried many years as was husband).

This being the same place where a doctor refused to prescribe extra pain relief for a patient in the end stage of cancer in case they got addicted. . . and accused me of trying to kill the patient off to free up the bed. (Patient son had to be held back from punching the doctor on this occasion).

We frequently had patients in pain but as a nurse you cannot administer medication without a prescription. To a relative it may look as though we are just sitting chatting on the phone, in reality they may be chasing a doctor around to write the prescription, and then ringing every ward to located the drugs (as the hospital pharmacy closed at 17:00).

Yes the nurse might be late with your IV drugs but as was frequently the case for me I would be the only nurse qualified to give IVs on shift on my ward. I frequently had 20 patients all requiring 2 or 3 IV drugs each of which take 5-10 minutes to administer all due at the same time. It is so surprising that sometimes I was late?

90% of the people in uniform on a hospital ward will not be qualified nurses, the day they put the house keepers in a uniform that was about 2 shades lighter than the qualified staff was the day I started seriously looking for another job.

As a qualified staff nurse it was the norm for me to be in charge of 30 patients, I on a good shift would have 1 other staff nurse, and maybe one newly qualified and 2 HCAs. Now a good HCA is worth their weight in gold, but at the wages and chance of progression in the job sadly good ones are hard to find.

As one person I cannot be at every bedside all day, a good HCA knows when a situation is starting to get out of control and alerts you. An untrained/unsupported HCA does not have the knowledge or experience to understand that they are out of their depth.

Research has constantly shown that the best ratio of qualified nurse to patient is 4:1 I was working on a good day 10:1, most days 15:1

I am a degree trained nurse, my degree did not change my ability to care properly for patients, lack of time affected my ability to care, lack of resources affected it.

i agree that money is been spent on the NHS I would question where it is been spent.

It was common to run out of fresh bed lined (hospital contracted out) decent pyjama trousers were like good dust.
We were not allowed keep any food in our ?kitchen? meaning if patients had been admitted in the middle of the night all we could offer them was tea, and a lot of time we would have run out of milk.
We ended up paying our own money in to a kitty from which we bought cornflakes/ biscuits/ breakfast bars to give to patients.
Cleaning was also contracted out, between the hours of 19:30-08:00 we had no access to any cleaning equipment, we did buy our own dust pan and brush but it was confiscated under spurious ?health and Safety? rules.
( I was qualified to administer Class A drugs but not to use a mop).
We never had toiletries to give to patients who had come in without and had no family to provide them. Again we bought a small amount out of our own money.

Even though I was ?in-charge? of the ward on my shift I was not allowed to discipline junior staff, when I pulled a HCA up for using inappropriate language I was accused of bullying and racism (even though I was of the same ethnic background and nationality), my sin?

I had said ?Please do not swear in front of patients it is inappropriate and unprofessional.?

Like any profession there will always be bad apples, sadly when I first went in to nursing over 20 years ago it was easy to spot them and deal with them, be it through better support, extra training or if need be sanctions.

Now it is practically impossible, I was expected to work alongside a colleague who appeared on the ward drunk and when they refused to leave became first verbally and then physically aggressive towards me. Even though the situation was serious enough to end up involving the police, this person was allowed to continue working with patients until the end of the ?disciplinary process? I myself reported them and the hospital to the NMC and got nowhere.

Please don?t read this as defending bad and poor treatment; I am passionate in encouraging friends and relations to complain, but please don?t have a knee jerk reaction of assuming that every person in a uniform is a Nurse.

And never assume that the money is being spent on patient care.

PeanutButterCupCake · 05/07/2012 12:21

Disgusting story....poor family Sad

Again maybe budget doesn't appear to be cut but our trust had to save 20 million this year....initial cuts include...

Ward closures despite oodles of patients stuck in corridors in A+E

Staff being forced to reapply for jobs and jobs being cut.

A recruitment freeze so wards are chronically under staffed.

Most days we have 2 qualified nurses and 2 HCA for 30 mainly fully dependant patients and regularly have a few a day who are critically ill.
It's a sad place the NHS has become when nurses are running around fighting to do the basics to keep people alive and have no time for other nursing care Sad

The government wants to sort itself and it's ridiculous targets out Angry