The return of the O Level.

[hermionestranger]

Leaked reports suggest that the government is to scrap the GCSE from 2015, 2013 option takers will be the last year to take them.

I'm sorry it's the mail bug they were first on my twitter feed. I 'm on my phone so can't link properly.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2162369/Return-O-Level-Gove-shake-biggest-revolution-education-30-years.html

I'm not sure I understand, what is the difference between the O Level and the GCSE?

TalkinPeace2

but it is equally possible for the top 5% to get a mark of 80% - 85% in one year and 81% - 85% the next, meaning that soemone could get the same mark as the previous A* did the previous year and get a lower grade.

giving grades by the position in the cohort is flawed.

And if we also start talking about easier papers we end up in the same positoon as we are in now.

If the less academic weren't pigeon holed into non academic subjects we wouldn't have the childcare we have today. At all the schools I have visited, worked at, had dcs at, friends teaching childcare at and nurseries visited, it is these less academic encouraged to take childcare rather than GCSE's. Many have d's in Maths and English.

There is little difference between O level and GCSE in most subjects. The academic rigour that has been missing in some areas is being addressed with more difficult questions and tighter grade boundaries.
What the current system offers is flexibility: students are put into higher or foundation depending on the aptitude they have shown over the 2 or 3 year course. With O levels/ CSEs, the decision was made at 13. That can't be right, surely?

giving grades by the position in the cohort is flawed.

It's called standardisation and takes into account the difficulty of the paper. Sometimes a cohort of kids find a paper more difficult and that's why it's used. The only way to eliminate this is by setting the same paper every time.

Boney No it is not flawed. It was that the paper one year was easier than the next which is why you need normalisation to take account of that.

I think a change is needed but i'm not sure that this is it, i think we should be going forwards insterad of backwards with education. if they are going to introduce it in 2016 that seems very soon, have they consulted with teachers? are they going back to the old methods of teaching which was not so inclusive?

i also think there is this idea that 0'levels got you a better job (or just a job!) but that was a long time ago when the population was smaller and technology was not as advanced (i.e. machines now do a lot of the jobs that people used to do) so jobs are scarcer.

also it's very hard to get a trade already without academic backing, there are so few apprenticeships available so how will this affect young people who are less academically able but still have a lot to offer?

i am concerned that this is yet another rash decision that hasn't been thought through properly :/

They standardise the 11 plus as well, because you don't know how a group of children are going to find a paper until they have completed it. One year someone may get into a grammar school with 90% and the next year it may be 85% - that's the way it goes.

Have they consulted the teachers?? They haven't even consulted the Lib Dems!

Cameron didn't know either I think this is unlikely to happen

Teachers shouldn't be consulted, they will never agree to any change.

JosephineCD

your prejudice is showing.

figroll NovackNGood

What is an acceptable variant in the papers?
At what point does standardisation devalue the grade/s?
Who provides the stats to prove that the pupils are equally as capable?
Who desides which percentage gets what grade?

I think teachers would by and large agree to a change in who is the Education Minister at the moment...

Boney you just don't seem to understand mathematics or are you just being argumentative?.

Teachers always want a change in the minister because woe betide they actually get held accountable by someone for a doing a poor job.

married the 25% would, according to the mail, be doing 'more straightforward exams' involving bus timetables and calculating change, in maths, at least.

I understand Mathematics well enough, But if you have to standardise the results because a paper is harder or easier then the paper is badly or incorrectly written.

If the level/grade of the written exam cannot be assured then what hope do you have for the exam process that it represents?

and I will ask again

What is an acceptable variant in the papers?
At what point does standardisation devalue the grade/s?
Who provides the stats to prove that the pupils are equally as capable?
Who desides which percentage gets what grade?

NovackNGood
"Teachers always want a change in the minister because woe betide they actually get held accountable by someone for a doing a poor job."

How do you know when whether a teacher is doing a poor job if the standards that they have to perform to keep changing?

noblegiraffe have they consulted the parents - the teachers don't; why should politicians?

Some people seem to think their child has 'failed' if they were to announce they wanted become a gas fitter or plumber. It might not need a degree but a gas engineer or a plumberhas to know about how gas or fluid moves, how piping works etc.

No child should ever feel second anything so that does need to be considered with such radical reform and all the talk of holding the 'clever' kids back.

Boneyback when the percentage of the population remaining functionally illiterate and innumerate when they leaves school isn't falling. Actually I think secondary teachers do a very good job - they were hard to fault at dd's school (we were there two years before pulling her out for the indy sector) but the problem was behaviour and the lack of appetite or resources to deal with the 5% hard core who were drawing in a further 10% from the periphery. This had a dreadful impact on teaching and learning for the majority and made school a much less happy and safe place than it should have been.

When I hear teachers calling for more resources to deal with atrocious behaviour and when they stop making excuses for those who will not behave, then I will support them. The silent, well behaved majority is not being well served by the profession and its hell bent attempts at complete inclusion ill behove it.

marriedinwhite

teachers have been calling for help with behaviour etc. for a good few years.

I am all for change but it has to be planned and well thought out, and then left for a good length of time to see if it works.

Any plans put on the back of other plans that may or may not work is not going to help anybody. It certainly won't help the children and frankly is doomed to fail.

Poor behaviour drove us out of the state sector or rather the head teachers refrain that every girl in this school is entitled to an education and I am not going to exclude any girl this school has admitted. Pah! DD would have been in her top 10% and DD's parents would have been heavy donors. Top 100 comprehensive - with 7 to 8 applicants per place.