Midwives say women should pay for epidurals

[TheDullWitch]

At least £500 a baby it says here

ffs! Well OK then, as long as everyone who has an operation in hospital also has to pay for their anaesthetic. I think that would be fair. After all, who cares if the poor are in agony.

Outrageous.

maybe you can tell from my mood that af has arrived today - sorry!!!

I'm speechless...

Miss Macdonald said: "Epidurals have become a kind of norm for a lot of women. Sometimes women think, 'I just want to get rid of the pain, how fantastic'. "

How selfish we women are!!! I know this is a generalisation but has MISS Macdonald been through labour herself? I've been through 4, 2 with epidurals (recommended for a c-section and a face presentation) and 2 without (forceps and posterior). I'd like to see her try breathing through a forceps delivery because I did and I still have nightmares now. How on earth can you generalise about another person's perception of pain? I had a forceps without an epidural and an epidural with no instrumental delivery so it doesn't necessarily follow.

Can you imagine a man suggesting this to another man?

WEll, this is going to increase women's confidence in their mw, their belief that a mw is on their side, and therefore give them the confidence to go through labour as naturally as possible...not!
And what a fantastic spectacle - poor women biting on rags, rich women having their deparatetely begged for epi. And the DH's 'oh, c'mon love, £500 is a lot of money - we need a new car, you know'.

I was totally confident about going into my first labour as a homebirth with a pool, and needed no pain relief at all throughout 3.5 hours of pushing. But I had this confidence and was bale to relax about it because I was confident that if I DID need / want it, I could have an epi - so nothing to be afraid of.

In the end, I did have an epi and ventouse, DS stuck and OP.

I think a financial disincentive is a CRAP way t approach an otherwise valid issue.

Another aspect of the epidurals that doesn't often get mentioned is the effect it may have on the baby. I don't agree with charging for epidurals, however I do think there needs to be better ways of managing the pain. And I can say that as a back to back birthing experience with his hand up by his face waving, which tore me on the way out! [winke]

DH has wondered out loud....... if he said to me, come on Darling it won't take that long and £500 is the price of a new set of irons which will last years, would he get bashed ?

Sure, let's charge women for epidurals. And while we're at it, lets charge men for the anasthetic they use when undergoing vasectomies as well. Why stop there? You have a heart attack? Silly you, should have loked after yourself better, here's a charge for the anesthesia.

P.S. I'm of those who got an epidural. My midwife told me I was a 'silly girl' who didn't need one. 6 hours later they were dragging dd out of me with forceps and stiching up the episotomy and second degee tears, still without offering me any pain relief.

Why is having an epidural a "convenience"? In most cases it requires longer recovery after the birth, with other complications/side effects too. Its flippant to say that women should "tough it out" etc. I totally refute that people who have epidurals dont cope with pain as well as those who dont have one. With everything else women have to worry about in pregnancy and childbirth and subsequent aftercare, such as it is, I think its ridiculous to focus on this aspect of childbirth.

I totally agree with Caligula's post.

I have had two ARM inductions - one ended up with syntocin and thus epidural, and the second one i had neither btw.

Yes, of course we think "get rid of the pain, how fantastic". Given that every single bloody literary and oral culture perpetrated by women - all those lovely wimmin's traditions, remember those? - reports that childbirth is probably one of the most painful things that women may go through? I had fabulous midwife support for my first labour. I also had an epidural. Which didn't work very well, but that's another story.

I decided for my second baby that I did want to avoid an epidural, and in fact had a home birth; but I do not see why other women shouldn't have the option of one, at all.

what a load of stunning tosh. "Unless there's medical need" erm isn't one of the key aims of medecine (in the wide sense of the word) to relieve pain? I mean childbirth's not like a few twinges. Also the idea that it's become the norm for a lot of women. Total crap. How can something you do perhaps, once, twice, possibly even three of four times in your life become a norm. It might be trend collectively but for the individual women it cannot possibly be a norm - which is what she implies. I was so angry after dd1 was born with the NCT anti-epidural, some nice music and smelley candles will sort you out brigade. Labour FUCKING well HURTS and whilst I agree that there are other issues that could ease it (like 1-1 mid-wife care, for example) and agree taht epidurals have their downsides some half-bkaed discriminatory arbitrary measure to get rid of them is not the way to go. Don;t know why I'm getting so irate. It's never going to fly.

I had an epidural at the last minute because after pushing for 4 hours my DS who was back to back just wasn't moving. So obstitrician said for me to have an epidural and the did a ventouse and he was born within the hour. I had opted not to have one initially because when I arrived at the hospital I was 8 CM dilated and was told that epidural might slow down labour. Inability to push out DS slowed down labour. I had pethadine and would never, ever, opt to have it again as it made me feel not in control.

I think the idea of charging women to have epidurals is ludicress and will certainly put emotional pressure on those women who are unable to pay.

I do, however, think that women should be charged for elective caesareans which have no medical basis as I don't think that a baby is something which should be allowed to be born just when it's convenient and too much NHS time and money is spent on women who simply can't be bothered to go through labour and have their babies when their babies are ready to be born.

I feel the need to clarify (post first, think later). My big bug bear with the NCT was not the underlying principles - the kind of things caligula talks about - confidence, trusted mid-wife, knowledge etc - I know these things can help make for a good birth (I had them with dd2) but what annoys me is that the NCT bowls you over with ideals that for the vast majority are simply not available on the NHS - fine for campaigning work - yes these things need to be changed, but, imho, feeding this stuff to someone 7 months pregnant without also making them aware of the reality that it is probably unattainable, and that some nice music in your scrotty hospital room just ain't going to cut it, is wrong. It certainly was for me and I believe it had a negative effect on my birth. I was left feeling very bitter about it (if you hadn't guessed).

What a pile of crap! I am sure that if my labour had progressed to a 'natural'(whatever that is)labour I would have needed an epidural. Why should women have to pay for pain relief? Maybe the hospital should have had a coin slot on the gas and air I was having?
What the hell have I been paying my taxes for, if I cant have pain relief from a hospital??

I had an emergency c section, through no fault of my own. I had a different midwife on every visit/checkup, I had no one to one care. DS was an 'undiagnosed' breech baby. His heartbeat dropped and I had preaclampsia (sp) and didnt even know!

Have to say that I agree with thedullwitch, in respect to spending more money and time on 'one to one' care. I had ante natal classes which were supposed to get me ready for labour - yeah right. I watched some videos, that was it. One on how to look after a newborn, one on breastfeeding (which was out of date and un convincing) and one on a natural labour. Cor, those videos really did prepare me for labour...!!

Maybe all those £500's can be put towards, ooh I don't know, making it so that husbands/partners aren't sent home while a woman is in labour, women don't have to labour on a ward because there's no room available, there is a water birth option available, even a gym ball or a bean bag, any of which might have eased my distress and eventual request for an epidural.

"Midwives say women should pay for epidurals"

Kleggie says midwives should receive performance-related pay.

Same goes for footballers.

Good point about the free prescriptions, waswondering! Pop to the docs and get some pain relief and 'sneak' it in to the hospital, will save you some money!

Surely a c section doesnt really hurt? Just a little nick....!!

It wasn't realised that I had a 'medical need' for one - face front baby w/hand up by her ear, until the consultant came in to see if she could deliver the baby w/forceps or ventouse or whether I needed a csection. After 23 hours of labour and 2 hours of pushing. Before the epi, I was fainting from exhaustion.

'Medical need' is relief from pain. Btw, ALL pain is 'normal' - it's the body's natural response to stimulus which it perceives as harmful to it. To say, well, labour pain is different from other kinds of pain and therefore should be dealt w/by toughing it out is ludicrous.

I couldn't be bothered with anti-natal classes, looked it all up on the net. I think seeing a video of someone giving birth would have freaked me out far more than helped me. My MW was on her hols three times during my pg so I saw all manner of fillers in and then a completly different one on d day who luckily was fab. I agree with all the one to one care, education, not having pain relief forced on you, but at the end of the day if you need an epidural for whatever reason you should get one.

Where the hell is aloha?! Did I not read a post from someone saying that women should PAY for elective csections?

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I thought you did have to pay for elective c-sections.

No. Don't see why you should. I mean, there's a LOT of procedures that impact a person's quality of life that the NHS pays for - breast reconstruction after mastectomy, female and male sterilisation procedures, IVF, etc.

I suggested that if we are going to have to pay for epidurals on grounds of cost and/or perceived health risks, why not pay for elective caesareans as well, in order to discourage this alleged percentage of the population who can't be arsed giving birth like the rest of us. (Has anyone actually met someone who said "I had a c-section cos I am too posh to push"?)

It feels like we've been magically transported back to the era when ether was first used for pain relief in labour, and everyone was up in arms about the fact it was ungodly to interfere with the pain cos in the Bible it says "thou shalt not have an epidural" (not exact translation).

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